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IForgeIron?
July 17, 2013
4:47 pm
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Dave Hammer
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I agree with Ciladog.....   IFI either took down or had the site taken down because they chose to address a member's issue via a legal battle and public sympathy. 

Grandkids and blacksmithing... Joy Joy Joy..............................YouTube Channel: djhammerd

July 17, 2013
5:43 pm
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stewartthesmith
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Look at the title of this thread!  This is the PURPOSE of the thread!

July 17, 2013
7:28 pm
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Mark
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stewartthesmith said

I too have had disagreements with moderators on that site.  HOWEVER, the site owner has always adjudicated these conflicts in a manner that I have to admit is fair and square.  The colloquialism "don't start no mess, won't be no mess" seems applicable here.  I have also discovered that all the moderators, without exception, can be talked to in a reasonable manner there.  Their management style actually works for me: put out the conflagration NOW, and we can discuss this logically later.

 

Stewart, I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  I have stated to the moderator in question that I think his behaviour is inappropriate.  Then he tries playing the victim role and acts like a martyr who can get away with his rule violations because he is tired of answering the same questions all the time.  I contacted the site owner via message to express my concerns about that mod and his reply was essentially "what do you want me to do about it?".  Nothing changed.

If the site owner listened to the concerns (not just mine, but many others had similar concerns) and did something about the "rogue" moderator's behaviour, none of this would have ever happened.  this thread wouldn't exist.  There wouldn't be so many people missing IFI.

July 17, 2013
7:53 pm
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stewartthesmith
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Mark said

stewartthesmith said

I too have had disagreements with moderators on that site.  HOWEVER, the site owner has always adjudicated these conflicts in a manner that I have to admit is fair and square.  The colloquialism "don't start no mess, won't be no mess" seems applicable here.  I have also discovered that all the moderators, without exception, can be talked to in a reasonable manner there.  Their management style actually works for me: put out the conflagration NOW, and we can discuss this logically later.

 

Stewart, I'm going to have to disagree with you here.  I have stated to the moderator in question that I think his behaviour is inappropriate.  Then he tries playing the victim role and acts like a martyr who can get away with his rule violations because he is tired of answering the same questions all the time.  I contacted the site owner via message to express my concerns about that mod and his reply was essentially "what do you want me to do about it?".  Nothing changed.

If the site owner listened to the concerns (not just mine, but many others had similar concerns) and did something about the "rogue" moderator's behaviour, none of this would have ever happened.  this thread wouldn't exist.  There wouldn't be so many people missing IFI.

 

I have had run-ins with that particular moderator.  Wanna know something?  After I talked to him politely and calmly, he apologised for acting so hastily, so I know he is a man with morality and if spoken to with respect, will act reasonably.  I only hope that the people trying to chastize him are half as reasonable as he is.

July 17, 2013
8:09 pm
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Mark
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There's only so many times where begging for forgiveness after the fact works.  

The hipocrisy surrounding his behaviour is what really annoyed many.  If anyone pulled the attitude he did they would be banned.

July 17, 2013
8:17 pm
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stewartthesmith
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I am going to lay off this topic, before I say something everyone, including myself, might regret.  Exercise some self control, I implore you.......

July 17, 2013
9:14 pm
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Rich Hale
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July 17, 2013
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i saw a note on here several posts ago i would like to address as I feel it also included me.

Steve Sells and I spent a whole lot of our own time creating and caring for the knife making weekly chats that were then posted for all to see, use or wotever they wished. The note I am referencing spoke of us telling new folks they should look into that reference material in place of us again taking the time to type the answers they seek. i have done that very thing many times. And can see how that may not be taken well by some looking on. I pushed for this knife making lesson series and am proud to share wot I could. One reason for it i saw as a need w3as a place that folks new to the skills would have a readily available resource to click on that would give help they wished. Many times when I have not typed in an answer, and have suggested they check the forum I have also added that if they have any questions about the material i would help however i could.  Many times after I refer someone I check to see if they are indeed looking at the info. If they are i will go out of my way if they need more. If not I figure they did not wish help very much at all. And not many times as suggested above have I provided a hot link. 

Reading the note from Thingmaker i have to reconsider wot i have been doing. First I maybe should not have involved myself in this series. But I did. Giving due thought to just telling folks to go find the info is not an answer I should put forth. Will see if I am willing to hot link each time someone asks, Might at least do more than I have been doing. I can say right now there will be few times that I will sit here and type a lengthy answer for someone. that will mimic wot is in the series. Having done that a lot of times and watched as before I hit enter the person left! Thanks for the heads up. I will try and be a little more sociable with these kind of issues.

 

 

 

July 17, 2013
9:44 pm
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Lee Cordochorea
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stewartthesmith said

        Let me introduce you to something taught in university english classes, a phenomenon called analogy.  IFI IS a general contractor, disseminating blacksmithing information, "brick by brick", as if in a "foundation".  One cannot arbitrarily remove "bricks" from an informational foundation without the structure collapsing.

 

Let me introduce you to something taught in an American midwest high-school in the '70s: a logical fallacy called "false analogy."

Nothing collapses if one deletes posts. Glen has deleted many posts. Nothing collapesd. It is not a building. It never will be a building.

Yes, I would miss certain posts if they went missing. Others I would never notice the absence of. IRRELEVANT. Is the intellectual property Glen's or Craig's or the Earth's? I truthfully don't think it is up to you or me to decide that!

No matter where you go... there you are.

July 17, 2013
9:50 pm
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Lee Cordochorea
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I've spent the past three quarter hours fighting the "quotes" feature. I'm sure Amy will get it working right in the fullness of time.

 

For now, I will simply say: Rich Hale, I hope to someday gain the wisdom you already posses.

No matter where you go... there you are.

July 18, 2013
5:33 am
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stewartthesmith
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The analogy is apt.  Do NOT move the goalposts, my friend.  I am an expert not only in tool forging, but in logical fallacy, both formal and informal.  The posts that Glenn has deleted in the past were for infractions in manners, not content, unless the content advised people to engage in dangerous blacksmithing practices.  Glenn does NOT delete informational content related to blacksmithing, because the structure of his site would tumble if he did so.  Could you imagine if he deleted my blogposts on bending with vise-mounted bending forks, but LEFT the replies on that blog?  The whole thread would collapse.

Argumentum ad bacculum, or the appeal to the stick, is going to be the mode on that site in the future.  The "stick" they shall employ will be a warning "shot", then exile, which shall be their "stick".  Not all revolutions produce moderate results.  Sometimes those revolutions produce ZERO TOLERANCE.  As Aubrey in the movie "Master and Commander" elegantly stated, "men must be governed".

July 18, 2013
7:30 am
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Rich Hale
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Keep in mind that the operation and ownership of IFI is to remain the same. I am not sure any of the rest of us can predict how it will remain the same or wot will change when it again is operational.

For sure there are some changes i would like to see. i am sure most folks may have a list also. I have expressed my thoughts.

July 18, 2013
8:05 am
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admin
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In appreciation of the fact that some people wanted to discuss the disruption of service at the IForgeIron website I let this discussion develop here. It seems now that the same opinions are being restated again and again, and getting a little hotter each time. It is time to switch the conversation on our site, http://www.blacksmith.org, to BLACKSMITHING.  This discussion is now closed. It is not being censored, it is just time to move on.  

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