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Wide breaker points pricing
September 26, 2011
8:44 pm
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JNewman
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I just finished sharpening 38 breaker points, 11 of them were 5" wide. Most of the others were 3" wide. How much more do those of you who do breaker points charge for the 5" wide points. I didn't do too badly on the wide chisels because about 2/3 of the chisels only needed grinding. There were several I didn't think needed sharpening so I didn't charge for them even though I touched a couple to the grinder. I am telling them that they have to sort next time because I will be sharpening them all next time and charging for all.

For both the 3" and the 5" I didn't have a taper tool that quite matched the taper so I just used a flatter after roughing them out. It worked well, it might have been faster than putting a taper tool on and off as I was nipping the tools under the hammer as well.

September 26, 2011
9:23 pm
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Grant Sarver
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About 30 - 50% more for the 3" chisels and 50 - 100% more for the asphalt cutters. The 3" are usually sharpened at the same as points and narrow chisels (around 20-23º) and the asphalt cutters at 30º (i know that sounds too blunt, but trust me).

September 26, 2011
9:51 pm
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JNewman
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I matched all these to the existing taper or slightly steeper. The 3" chisels are around 8 degrees, some of them have a raised section around the edge and have almost no taper for the last 2" in the center. The asphalt cutters are almost straight except for about 1-2" at the edge which is tapered at about the same 8 degrees.
These are 1 1/8" shank and are used in an electric hammer. Does that make a difference?

September 26, 2011
10:02 pm
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JNewman
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The 3" chisels all looked very thin to me. At the thickest part of the full width they are only 1/2-5/8" are these normal chisels?

September 26, 2011
10:55 pm
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Grant
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Here's what I get at those angles on a 1-1/8 shank:

[Image Can Not Be Found]

“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~

September 27, 2011
12:48 am
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Larry L
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I'm getting $3.50 for anything 2" or wider including asphalt cutters. They take about a minute each... A standard point or chisel I get $2 and takes 30 seconds... The only reason that works for me though is tooling and volume... At those prices I am averaging close to $100/hr including handling

Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln

September 27, 2011
3:06 am
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Lynn Gledhill
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Larry L;12307 wrote: I'm getting $3.50 for anything 2" or wider including asphalt cutters. They take about a minute each... A standard point or chisel I get $2 and takes 30 seconds... The only reason that works for me though is tooling and volume... At those prices I am averaging close to $100/hr including handling

Might we see the tooling you use?? I might want to get into this gig, locally.

All the best,

Lynn

September 27, 2011
3:44 am
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JNewman
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Grant;12304 wrote: Here's what I get at those angles on a 1-1/8 shank:

[Image Can Not Be Found]

The end nipped off so it is 3/16"-1/4" thick on the end cuts the 8"down to about 6 1/2" long which is close to the length of the taper. I will have to measure them in the morning to confirm. I will try and get some pictures of them.

I quoted $6 each before I knew they where almost all 3" and wider. With the volume I am doing I am not doing as well as Larry. I spent a bunch of the day making a tool to cleanly nip the ends off. Many of the tools I did not have to grind after nipping the ends off. This cost me today but if more repointing work comes in it will pay off.

September 27, 2011
4:00 am
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Grant Sarver
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Some pics would be nice. 15º is the tightest I've ever seen.

September 27, 2011
6:22 am
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Larry L
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Yeah sure... I even got a buddy to come shoot a short video... 4 points in a minute... The last one was a 1 1/4 point which takes a fraction longer..

I generate about 1200-1500 pounds of nipped ends a month... The pile you see is a between a week and two's worth..

Whats in the rack there is about 2.5 hours work

This station is set up like this all the time... In order to really crank the suckers out it takes a fairly tight system....

Attached files

[Image Can Not Be Found] [Image Can Not Be Found] [Image Can Not Be Found] [Image Can Not Be Found] [Image Can Not Be Found] [Image Can Not Be Found] [Image Can Not Be Found]

Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln

September 27, 2011
7:31 am
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Grant Sarver
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Ya got the moves down Larry! Nice tight work circle too! Kickin' butt!

September 27, 2011
12:52 pm
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JNewman
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Nice looking setup Larry. I may have to sign up to facebook so I can see your video. I measured the length of the taper on the 3" cutters this morning. There are 2 styles of 3" chisels. The one style has a 6 1/2" long taper. The other has the raised ribs and steps down steeply and then runs almost parallel.
[Image Can Not Be Found]
Here is a picture of them, the one in the middle is the raised rib style that I just touched the edge up on, the one on the top is one of the other style that I nipped about 1/4" off and then drew out about 1". Are these normal for 3" chisels? Next time I will try using my taper tool that is around 22 degrees.

Here is the Nipping tool that I made, the guide bars on the ends are 1x1 1/2" 4140 and act as kiss blocks.

[Image Can Not Be Found]
[Image Can Not Be Found]
I am pointing chisels and points only about once a year right now so it doesn't make sense for me to set up a more involved set up. If I was closer I would just sub them to Larry:D

September 27, 2011
3:28 pm
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Larry L
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I just do those on the 20 deg ramp John... basically just forming a new edge without forging the whole chisel... I end up with about 1/2"-3/4" of new chisel with a 20 deg edge by forging into the material rather than matching the long taper.. then nip it off at almost nothing... I think I did some of those last night, I'll see if I can find one an snap a picture..

Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln

September 27, 2011
10:41 pm
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JNewman
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Thanks Grant and Larry, that's how I will do them next time. Which may be a while. The guy who picked them up said that they dull about 1 a week or two.

That's Ok though, I have 3 fairly involved patterns to make. With 1 due each week and a half. 30 heavy coke oven chisels to make 10 of them for 2-3 weeks from now. A bending anvil and grinding fixture for aluminum extrusions for the end of next week. 8 pairs of tongs roughed out for a farriers competition before this weekend, And I just had a customer ask me this afternoon to quote 12 (3 different designs) pipe brackets for Monday morning. These are tricky brackets as the tolerance on the radius centers and hole locations is +-.030. Here is a picture of the last ones I did for them. The new ones have different centers and diameters than these.
[Image Can Not Be Found]
[Image Can Not Be Found] There are 14 different designs in the box. Even the simple ones had the two legs on different planes.

September 27, 2011
10:51 pm
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Grant
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Wow! I'd pay a dollar to see that! Lotta bends to get lined up. How do you go about it? ±.030? Pretty tight for bending.

“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~

September 27, 2011
11:37 pm
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JNewman
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I will take a picture of the jig when take it down from the shelf when I add holes to it for two of the parts if I get the job. I was pretty aggressive with pricing based on the crazy delivery. The jig is a piece of 1" plate with holes on the centers some are common with different diameter bushings for the radii then other holes for the tight corners then small diameter holes to hold a jig for marking the hole centers. Annular cutters and a milling machine were mandatory for making the jig as some of the holes overlap. The diameters where the pipes go are +1/16-0 but the center tolerance is +-1/32.

I had 12 fabrications I quoted a couple of weeks ago made of a couple of bent pieces of 1" schedule 80 stainless pipe around 24" long welded to 2 elbows with a piece of pipe around 24" long between them. The dimensions were all +-.015!!! the ends of the bent pipe had an odd chamfer on the ends. It was a handle!!! I quoted it based on opening the tolerances up to .030" and based the pricing on building dedicated fixturing to hold the parts to weld them. I am glad I didn't get the job.

September 27, 2011
11:48 pm
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Grant
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John: Can you not see the video?

“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~

September 28, 2011
12:02 am
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Grant
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So funny when people demand tighter tolerances than they need. I've made handles that were welded on to heavy equipment that "had" to be within .030. In reality an inch wouldn't have mattered. Designers just can't stand to specify ±1/4".

Did some foot rails once where they wanted some tight smooth bends and specified 1" heavy-wall tube. I used 1" cold-drawn bar. Yep 1/2" wall tube! Funny how designers will call out tube when weight is not an issue. I think they think it will be cheaper.

“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~

September 28, 2011
12:18 am
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JNewman
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I cannot see the video. It says that I have to log into facebook to see if I have permission to see the video. I don't have a facebook account.

September 28, 2011
1:15 am
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Grant
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Hey Larry! how about posting it on Youtube so John can see it?

“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~

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