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10:01 pm
May 13, 2010
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I picked up a #2 Hossfeld that still has most of the paint on it last night with 2 pipe dies for $275. I can replace my homebuilt mild steel # 2 with the real thing now. And the pipe dies are worth what I paid
10:51 pm
March 18, 2010
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Nice score John! You'll love having the real thing. Didn't come with the "basic" tooling, eh? Any chance of tracking down the rest?
“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~
12:04 am
May 13, 2010
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Unfortunately no. They guy I bought it from worked in a big fab plant where thay made parts for Cat. They shut down a second plant and had a big employee only auction. He bought it to do ornamental railings and realized he didn't have time and his wife wanted it out of the basement. He thinks some of the stuff got thrown out.
I do have a #1 with all the goodies that stays set up all the time. The #2 lives hanging on the wall because I don't have room to leave it set up.
3:37 pm
NWBA Member
April 22, 2010
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Thats why, when it came time to choose, I picked a wife, and skipped the basement...
(She has 2 or 3 buildings of her own, full of stuff, so its hard for her to tell me to get rid of something, unless it blocks her parking space)
Anyway, American Bender, just across the river from Hossfeld, makes a range of tooling for the machine as well- so you have two choices of manufacturers of tooling for it.
http://www.americanbender.com/
But even real hossfeld tooling isnt THAT expensive- especially when you amortize it over many jobs.
I couldnt live without my angle iron flange out tooling-
Figures 10 and 11 on this page-
http://www.hossfeldbender.com/.....e-iron.php
With it, you can bend repeatable radius curves and circles in flat bar both the hard way and the easy way, square bar, round bar, square tubing, and, of course, angle iron.
I make circles with it all the time- its quick, and they come out the size they should with the least amount of fussing of any tool I know- it takes longer, and more putzki, to use my ten thousand dollar angle rolls, than to quickly pull a 12" circle in 5/8" round, with the hossfeld.
And edge bending the hard way is one of those things that just puts a grin on my face every time I do it- its like magic.
That whole setup, with radius dies for 5" thru 36" radius', is only seven hundred bucks- I have made that back a hundred times over using it on my machine. The edge bending dies are only ninety bucks more.
http://www.hossfeldbender.com/.....ts9-08.pdf
compare that with a MINIMUM of five grand for the cheapest set of power angle rolls that would edge bend flat bar the hard way.
Plus, the hossfeld saves you money on gym memberships, and those expensive steroids...
4:17 pm
March 18, 2010
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Can't argue with that. There have been many times when I made the cost of my Hossfeld back in one day using it.
“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~
6:40 pm
July 10, 2010
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I love mine also and would not want to be with out it. Francis Whitaker might have cursed them but they are what they are.
Another thought. I have been wanting to add hydraulics to mine. I have used they factory setup alot so I am familiar with it. I have seen alot of self made set ups. I wonder if I should just buy the factory set up or make my own. Any opinions on this?
6:58 pm
NWBA Member
April 22, 2010
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Yeah, but while he may have been a great teacher, and Public Relations boon for blacksmithing, his work wasnt very good. I dont follow the gospel of St. Francis, myself.
They have gates and pieces by a lot of the greats at the SIU campus in Carbondale- the Whittaker piece is the most clunky, amateurish, and least good looking of the bunch.
I know, its heresy to not bow down before the great one, but while he had a time and a place, he didnt know squat about hossfelds, and what can be done with one.
Fact is, I do a LOT of work HOT with my hossfeld, and it comes out looking just like hand hammer work would- except faster, smoother, and with less wear and tear on the old guy (me).
Most every purist I know has a day job.
The luxury of rigorous ideology is reserved for those who dont actually make metal for money, I have found.
The hydraulics are good for production bending- but make sure they are easy to disconnect- one of the big benefits of the hossfeld is tactile feedback- it makes you much stronger, but still allows you to feel the metal moving. Adding hydraulics makes it ALL machine, and that means if you are using stops and trying for exact duplicate parts, its great.
But for a lot of what I use it for, I would never give up the ability to feel it move, and adjust accordingly.
7:03 pm
May 13, 2010
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Harold Hilborn;9342 wrote: I love mine also and would not want to be with out it. Francis Whitaker might have cursed them but they are what they are.
Another thought. I have been wanting to add hydraulics to mine. I have used they factory setup alot so I am familiar with it. I have seen alot of self made set ups. I wonder if I should just buy the factory set up or make my own. Any opinions on this?
I have been thinking about this as well. But I also wonder if it is worth adding the hydraulics to one. The only production job I use mine for is a 180 bend and I think the 180 bend includes stopping and resetting the ram a time or two. Am I wrong? The fact the hydraulic system comes self contained and with limit switches could be worth the extra money, due to the time to figure out how to set up and source the valving for the limit switches. The American bender hydraulics appear to only do a 90 degree bend.
I looked at the hydraulics on their website and it is only a 1000psi system. It says it takes 2 minutes for a bend in 2" pipe is that a 180 bend or 90.
I have been trying to think of a linkage that would allow for a 180 bend in one shot maybe it would need a higher power cylinder but enerpac cylinders are common and have much more power than a 1000psi system.
8:27 pm
NWBA Member
April 19, 2010
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A demo at one of the conferences showing what can be done with a metal bender would be GREAT!! I've had one around for years and still just do basic branding iron stuff on it. Wonder if there's anyone around that would give a "mini-demo" or informal one?
8:55 pm
NWBA Member
April 22, 2010
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I will do one at some point, but am already hauling too much equipment to this conference to add the hossfeld to the mix.
At a certain point it might make more sense just to have the whole conference at my house...
10:18 pm
April 21, 2010
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Did I just hear a volunteer for a conference at his place????????
10:21 pm
August 2, 2010
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I've got the old style foot pedal operated hydraulic setup on my Hosfeld and I love it. Every once in a while I think how nice it would be to have the solenoid stops for a particular job but overall this setup works fine. Like Reis says using a Hosfeld well is a feel and sight thing and you get used to just when to let off after a while. It's a piece of cake to disconnect the hydraulic power on the factory setup- just pull one pin on the swinging frame and you are done. I had the manual machine for years before I found another one with the hydro unit which I bought along with some other items in that root. I switched the power parts over to my first unit since it was in better shape and sold the now manual unit for more than I had in it. I did have to replace the power cord, switch and hydraulic hoses though so it worked out a wash. I'd recommend the hydraulic setup if you do much heavy bending or you are just lazy like me. When you are doing a 180 degree bend with the hydro the part that really takes the time is that you use a swing arm with an extra set of holes mounted at 90 degrees to normal and have to switch your tooling part way through the bend. The cylinder is mounted to an arm that has a series of stops on it to allow slightly more than a ninety degree bend but the geometry just doesn't allow the cylinder to reach a position that would get you to 180. Steve G
10:50 pm
July 10, 2010
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SGensh;9349 wrote: I've got the old style foot pedal operated hydraulic setup on my Hosfeld and I love it. Every once in a while I think how nice it would be to have the solenoid stops for a particular job but overall this setup works fine. Like Reis says using a Hosfeld well is a feel and sight thing and you get used to just when to let off after a while. It's a piece of cake to disconnect the hydraulic power on the factory setup- just pull one pin on the swinging frame and you are done. I had the manual machine for years before I found another one with the hydro unit which I bought along with some other items in that root. I switched the power parts over to my first unit since it was in better shape and sold the now manual unit for more than I had in it. I did have to replace the power cord, switch and hydraulic hoses though so it worked out a wash. I'd recommend the hydraulic setup if you do much heavy bending or you are just lazy like me. When you are doing a 180 degree bend with the hydro the part that really takes the time is that you use a swing arm with an extra set of holes mounted at 90 degrees to normal and have to switch your tooling part way through the bend. The cylinder is mounted to an arm that has a series of stops on it to allow slightly more than a ninety degree bend but the geometry just doesn't allow the cylinder to reach a position that would get you to 180. Steve G
I have done some 1 1/4" SCH 40 handrail jobs with 180 degree bends. I have done them hot with a rose bud. I am glad I have only had to do a couple bends at a time. The last time I had to do it I almost broke out the VISA and said the hell with this I'm going hydraulic.
10:57 pm
NWBA Member
April 19, 2010
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Ries: I didn't NECESSARILY mean you, or at the NEXT conference,BUT,now that you mention it, I'd sure pay to show up at your place for a "bender class"!!! Eric Sprado
7:45 am
March 26, 2010
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Ries;9344 wrote:
Most every purist I know has a day job.
The luxury of rigorous ideology is reserved for those who dont actually make metal for money, I have found.
Spot on there Ries.
Plus which, earning a living can often mean doing mini production runs, even for "artistic" work. Doing a few hundred widgets ye oldie traditional(e) way can get mighty tedious and rarely pays the mortgage let alone earning money to buy new tools/toys.
6:12 pm
david hyde;9355 wrote: Spot on there Ries.
Plus which, earning a living can often mean doing mini production runs, even for "artistic" work. Doing a few hundred widgets ye oldie traditional(e) way can get mighty tedious and rarely pays the mortgage let alone earning money to buy new tools/toys.
Thirded!
8:37 pm
NWBA Member
April 22, 2010
Offline
I am in favor of quality workmanship.
I am in favor of good design.
I am against mig welded square tubing with goo-gaws from King glued on.
But I also think you can do a lot with a hossfeld that you would otherwise do by hand, and have it done before lunch.
And I am definitely in favor of lunch.
For instance, I did a few pieces a few years ago that involved taking pieces of 3/8" square, twisting them, and putting a 90 degree bend on each end. I could have done each bend (there were around 1000 of them) on the anvil with a hammer, sure.
Or, I could use the bulldozer die on the hossfeld. I heated each one in the forge, and the hot bending meant that I got a very similar look from the hossfeld as hand hammering- a slight deformation of the material, a bulge from the hot flow at the corner- but it took me seconds per.
With the hossfeld, I was able to use stops for both degree of bend and location.
In the end, you couldnt tell the difference, visually.
A hossfeld is really just about applying leverage. Where, and how you apply it is up to you.
I often go back and forth between the hossfeld and the anvil- its not either one or the other.
1:23 am
NWBA Member
April 19, 2010
Offline
Benders are blacksmiths' tools. Use them!! This damned purist thing has become an obsession in many areas. I'm a fiddle player. Have played for Grange Hall dances,in clubs,etc. for over fifty years. When I was a kid fiddlers were fiddlers. Now there are the "Genre Wars"! I had a young man tell me I wasn't a "real" fiddler a while back because I didn't play a tune in the squeaky squawky way some old fart in some hills did!!
I bet blacksmiths of former generations didn't argue "old timey purism"-they had a job to get done.. Let all purists sit around with their puckered up assholes and the rest of us will enjoy life....
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