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Adding walls to the Hahobas Smithy
April 23, 2015
11:41 am
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Tracy Lauricella
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 I'd like some feedback on this plan, (plus I have some specific questions toward the end.) The smithy building at the Camp Hahobas Boy Scout Camp is a 20'x40' open-side pole building. We used trees harvested from the property for the uprights, and it lends a lot to the atmosphere of the smithy to have the nice look of the wood posts.

 

However, I'd like to add a low wall around the smithy; something to help block wind, direct foot traffic and provide a simple barrier. I've decided on a 3' wood wall. That'll be tall enough to be effective, but short enough that the kids observing can see over it comfortably. However instead of a fixed wall, I want them to be able to swing open to move equipment in and out easily.

 

Between the posts on each side is an 18' span. I plan to have two "gates" covering each of these. These will likely be rough-cut cedar 4x4's with 2x6's as facing. On the ends of the building we have door sills already cast into the concrete footing, so the walls on those end will not swing. Instead they will be fixed on each end (but could theoretically be lifted out).

 

Some pictures may help:

Here's a couple views of the smithy today. The rope around the edges is where the "walls" will go.

 

Current smithy view 1:

View post on imgur.com

Current smithy view 2:

View post on imgur.com

 

Here's a rough sketchup picture of what the walls may look like:

Sketch:

View post on imgur.com

 

The "gates" will swing on strap hinges, I'm figuring 2"x1/4" stock. I haven't decided on simple rolled eyes or rolled & welded. With the number of hinges needing to be made, I'm likely going to make a hinge roller tool, like the one in Donald Streeter's book ()

 

Since a 9' wood wall is going to be pretty heavy, I'm also looking to support the gate end with a tie that goes back to the top of the posts. This can be cable or rod with a turnbuckle in the middle, or perhaps a forged chain.

 

I was originally thinking of driven pintles for the hinges, kind of like these:

Driven pintles:

View post on imgur.com

 

However, I 'm wary about something that's going to damage the posts, or work its way out over time. I like the simplicity of them though.

 

Then I thought of those really great looking post wraps I saw all over Government Camp at the Western States conference: Post wraps:

View post on imgur.com

 

With those, I thought maybe I can use pintles like these:

Pintle plate:

View post on imgur.com

 

and use the same bolts that close the post wraps to bolt them to it. The issue there is that on the corners, the pintles are 90 degrees to each other, not 180 like they are on the middle posts. I could add a second strap that just connects to the short walls, but that's not as clean.

 

What do you think? Any glaring problems with this plan?

  • How long do you think I should make the strap hinges?
  • Is 2"x1/4" strap going to work?
  • Rolled eye vs. rolled and flat welded- here's a rolled & welded strap:

    View post on imgur.com

    I'm concerned about the rolled eye opening. Even though the end of the gate will be supported by a tie, I'm sure at some point it'll have kids hanging on it, so I'm leaning towards rolled & welded. Any thoughts there?
  • I was looking at 1/2" pintle pins, do you think that's enough or should I go larger? 3/4"?
  • Lastly, do you think the wraps around the posts with the pintles bolted to them is better or worse than driving pintles into the posts? (both in terms of asthetics and durability)
April 23, 2015
3:31 pm
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Rashelle
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Why not lift out walls with smaller gate inserts? That way there is always gates and they can be enlarged by lifting out the wall sections as needed. This way with the gated areas smaller there is more positive control over entrance. You can always go with drive pintels that are bent over on the outside after driven through or that are bolted on the far side. The post rings/wraps look good and you could put a pintle through them too if needed. They'd be more likely to last longer with smaller gates also. You probly wouldn't need to have to remove the walls very often, so having them overall as lift walls shouldn't be too much of an issue either. But then I've never been there so don't know, you know your needs best.

April 23, 2015
4:15 pm
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Tracy Lauricella
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All very good points. For the front,  I think the design of the swinging wall sections meets our needs better than lift out ones based on the layout of the area. The concrete footing has door sills cast into it on the short ends, so this is where our foot traffic will go through, although I like the idea of making the walls on the short sides be able to lift out as well. Later I will consider how to add some nice forged gates to the door areas.

I'm not sure I need swing out gates on the backside of the smithy though, so maybe going with non-swinging lift out walls would work well there.

April 23, 2015
7:52 pm
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Lee Cordochorea
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Disclaimer: I am NOT an engineer. I have won arguments with them, though.

Cedar ballparks at 21 pounds per cubic foot. Each 9' 4x4 will weigh roughly 21 pounds. Each 3' 2x6 will weigh shy of 3 pounds.I'm thinking each leaf will be 90 pounds plus the weight of the nails and hardware. Calling it 100 pounds makes the math easier.

Static shear on each of two hinges (assuming I'm using the right equations) will be 53 pounds, give or take. Let's add 300 pounds of Scout for a shear of 212 pounds. Let's call that a "dynamic load" and multiply it by a safety factor of 5 for a thousand pounds. (I rounded off.) Your hinges will have a yield strenght on the order of 20 or 30 ksi. Let's use the 20 value. Moment of Inertia for the 1/4" thick x 2" wide strap is about 0.031, and with a half inch pintel, the correction factor is 0.75...

So (again, if I'm not using the wrong formula) a non-welded strap is only half as strong as the safety numbers say we should have. Use these only if you can guarantee 100 pounds of Scout or less hanging on the leaf. A welded strap exceeds the safety numbers by a factor of four. The 1/2" diameter pintels are up to the task either way.

Please not I'm not taking the wire/rod into account. Again, I'm not an engineer.

I really like the idea of collars. If they're tight, they absolutely won't move. (Try forcing the table on your drill press or mill to move without loosening the lock.) With proper measurement, the pintels could be incorporated into the straps. One could go hog-wild & pig-crazy and stamp Scout symbols into the straps as decoration.

No matter where you go... there you are.

April 24, 2015
2:14 pm
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Tracy Lauricella
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Great information, thanks!

Based on what you've said, and some feedback from others, I'm definitely going to go with the bolted collars and welded straps. I am seriously considering adding a wheel of some sort to the bottom of each gate at the end as well. That may be enough that the wire/rod/chain tie won't be needed, but I may do both for extra insurance of durability.

Any advice on how long to make the strap hinges?

April 28, 2015
7:25 pm
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Lee Cordochorea
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Length of the straps is of little importance compared to how securely they are attached to the leaves. Of course, the longer they are the more spiffy they'll look!

No matter where you go... there you are.

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