Why not just build a side draft forge? | "Traditional" Blacksmithing | Forum

Phil;6571 wrote: OK i'm confused. Is a side draft forge same as a side blast forge, or is a side draft forge a forge of any sort of blast configuration that just has a chimney that draws off to the side, I suppose like the pictures I've seen of Hofi's. You could have a side blast forge that has a side draft chimney too I suppose.

It was common practice to have a side blast forge with a (what is now termed) side draft chimney,

A lot of the traditional Uk village 'smithies had a central chimney with a hearth at the base,

A bellows/fan piped to the rear of the chimney, attached to a tuyere passing through the base of the chimney into the hearth,

This tuyere was covered with brick/stonework and the front of the tuyere finished in the hearth below an aperture where the smoke was sucked into the chimney, no real need for an extension

Tuyeres used to be made from cast iron and coal was the normal fuel used.

I used a side-draft forge for several years and have to agree its the way to go! The control you have of the fire size and the ease of building a quality fire is fantastic. I think that Jake is right in that bottom blasts were easy to travel with makes a lot of sense. I currently have a bottom blast and find that although it works well it has more limitations when controlling the size and quality of the fire.

I have used some great bottom blast coke pots. There is a deep Czech pot that works very well and is robustly built that I used that did a great job. However, with side drafts you do not need to break up the fire to remove clinker.

I have thought about casting water cooled side draft tuyeres. But I am not sure how many guys would want them in North America. The foundry I have most things cast at has a 100 mould minimum for items that need a core like the tuyere would need.

jack frost;6749 wrote: Cast bosh's are the traditional ones but I can see no advantage in them. I'd fabricate one from steel . it is much easier to fix if there is a problem, because you can just weld it no probs. The tip doesn't really burn up with the water cooling it. but rust will eventually get there. When a cast bosh is not filled with water ( not the right thing to forget) it is susceptible to cracking if water is poured on the fire.
They are more fragile.

Mark Manley had a simple design out somewhere but I can't find it.

AHH here it is
http://assets.calsmith.org/cba.....iginal.pdf

There is no need to taper the nose of the tuyere, it may be better to leave a broad end on the tube as it helps dissipate the heat better the ones here in the picture have been in use for 10 years and show no signs of deterioration

I am also attaching pictures of a typical tank/tuyere arrangement to try to illustrate what they consist of

Sorry I can't bring one along for you to try, but here (hopefully) is a pic of one used at demos by one of our guild's members

Bottom blast are easier to travel with as Jake mentioned, and for the small hobby 'smith I recommend seriously thinking about using one for various reasons.

Firstly here in the UK not many have space available to devote to forging, and the bottom blast takes up less floorspace,

Secondly you do not need a nearby water supply to keep filling the tank

Thirdly they are easy to make.

They are also portable and easier to take to demos.

As a Guild we support many shows, and we have our own forges that we take around the shows, and competitions on the National Champion Blacksmith circuit more details here http://www.blacksmithscompetition.co.uk they are bottom blast with about a 2 foot square hearth, with detachable legs, we can stack three of these to fit in the rear of a vehicle and they take just a 2 foot square area when we store them.

It may seem strange and against most thoughts being mentioned regarding depths of firepots, but the ones we use are very shallow (about one and a half inch deep at the centre) with a retaining wall to keep the coke that we use about 2" to 3" high, this means we do not have to carry large amounts of coke, just feed it regularly,

These forges can easily cope with up to 1" square steel, to forge welding heats and show little signs of deterioration, the only problem is a little warpage, due to the light materials being used, and the solid construction ( you can make them with the central area floating to minimise this) BUT unlike the cast iron firepots, the forge base does not glow red, clinker is easily removable by just sliding a slice underneath it after allowing it to cool for a few minutes

Just a few thoughts for you, I hope the pictures turn out ok and you can make some sense of what I am on about, I am not familiar with posting pics on this site, Any questions please feel free to ask and I will do my best to respond.

Hi Mr Frost,
In Response to your post above,

So far I have converted three forges that were built with a pot to run coke.
Like the demonstration forge you show they end up with a table with a few holes in the middle, with some arrangement to stop the air flowing around the "remedy". ( coke was burning out pot.)I have worked on A forge that is basically what you describe for the demo forge. the piece seemed to want to settle down right to the blast and there would be no coals under it just around it. or a big pile had to be used. I assume that with the walls you don't get that problem of being too close to the air blast.

That sounds like a fire management problem, and may also be influenced by the workpiece shape and size, the shallow base gives a "fuel cushion" between airblast and workpiece and allows clinker to form, yet still allows air through for a fair amount of time before it is a problem, the shape also allows for easy removal of the clinker "doughnut" which can then be sold as "Dragon Poo"

Nice and portable yes. but 1 inch is not the biggest piece is it?
Most here are talking about working a power hammer. I think you might be thinking they all make hooks, not so, some pretty big pieces come out of those forges. Even hobbyists tend towards at least a 25 lb little giant.And this is the USA There are no "small hobby" smiths;)

No they cope well above that size, also for annealing, heating sheet steel/copper or plate, you can also use them to produce a pencil thin flame to braze with

The largest I personally have firewelded together is 2" square wrought iron, no powerhammer used,(not needed as this is still small stuff) just me and my apprentice, It was to rejoin a weathervane mounting post that had been reduced by 6 foot in height, unfortunately the contractors had cut off the top six foot with the weathervane pivot on, instead of cutting off the bottom six foot, manipulating it was the greater problem, we had to make up a jury rig to support it whilst we worked on it.

I wonder about the floor space issue.
with a side blast you have all that space underneath to store those bags of coke and hot pieces. under a bottom draft there is a clinker breaker a tube that hot coals evacuate from and a big mess.. Normally

Only enough room for a few bags, and a pain to access, in and out, we place hot metal under for safety reasons, we also have a metal container under to put in the hot clinker when we have to clean the fire, fuel for replenisment is brought in in buckets when required

If you are real lucky you have a long quench tank on the front, way better than a slack tub 2ft deep made out of a whisky barrel.

We have seperate tanks/containers for cooling, there is very little real need for a quench tank, they can do more harm than good, the front troughs were more useful when using coal for fuel, they also seem to attract those tongs you misplace for some reason.

I have a side draft with no water cooling as described at the start of this thread, works like a side draft , works big pieces and has worked to make all the components of a pretty solid gate or two.

What do you class as big pieces? section, volume or area?

You only need the fire to heat the working area, this is usually relatively local, if I want to go to a longer or bigger area, I would switch to another forge, anything requiring above heating a 32" long x 4" X 4" section I can cope with in the workshop, above that would either subcontract out or decline to undertake, This is still classed as smallish work, Anything over 1cwt I would class as coming into the larger/heavier forging category

I'm still on the first piece of sacrificial tuyere pipe 9 years later.

That is good to hear, What size pipe are you using? Diameter of bore, and wall thickness, and what material is it made from?

Do you use it for long forging sessions often, or just periodic?

It really is hard to burn it up.

Have you really tried?

Compared to making one of those demo forges, it has" way" less parts,( by 6 holes, close shave l;) just lay the pipe on the top of any table and pile coal on.Air gate for control. simple and way more versatile.

Simple is good, I am all for saving energy, especially mine.

It is all down to what works best for the situation and the individual involved.

Whatever you use enjoy it, the more you learn the less you know.

Is this the smiley for "Apology for a boring response," :sleep: ?

Thanks for that Jack, Interesting that your thick walled tube uses a 3/4" bore, that is comparable to the cast iron tues commercially available,
The fabricated side blasts we use with water cooling in our Westpoint Forge training facility are only 5/8" bore, the Baker Vaughans cast ones bores are much larger and consume far more fuel in use, ours are just a little slower to bring to heat the larger items, but seem less prone to burning the material being heated, (That may be due to how they are used and who is using them,)

A for the quench tank, yes we use cooling when required, but a smaller container Galvanised bucket and a ladle with pouring facilities is more convenient and it is easier to change the water when required, Also serves as a fire (putting out) bucket should the need arise. Cut down metal beer kegs are also useful.

If you are familiar with Cockington forge, you may know the area, the weather vane I referred to was from the Chudleigh church. We were working from the Wheel Forge at the Wheel Craft centre at Chudleigh at the time.

Cockington forge is still selling bought in brass items to the grockles when it is open through the summer, I was asked if I would be interested in taking it on, but the idea did not appeal.
There is a working blacksmith at Cockington Court now and although he does survive on the blacksmithing he does there, there is still a lot of imported 'wrought iron' and allied items in the shop/gallery he has there. Still, it earns a crust for his wife who runs that side of the business.

Nice reminiscing, Were you familiar with a company called Tubeboring when you were at Tetbury? (Could they have been the source for your Tuyere pipe)

Hi Jack,
Tecnically I'm a grockle too, retired down here 32 years ago, on missionary work, originally came from Sheffield before they made it into a theme park.

A lot of the mini horshoes at Cockington were made by university students on a flypress in the back the forge.

The foreg is only open in the summer season, and is basically a shop. When I went to see the place, the owner said he didn't want anyone working in there as the Visitors would stop and watch, rather than just buy stuff.

I was not interested in shopkeeping, just making custom items

There is still a thatched forge in use at Branscombe near Beer just along the coast, Andrew Hall UK National Champion Blacksmith in the static and live competitions works from it, he makes some excellent stuff as you can see from the attached pictures.

If anyone sees the screen, please let me know, it was stolen from his workshop, along with a copper repousse firescreen with the Welsh Dragon on made by his Father. :devil: