Ribbon Forge Burner | Page 4 | Tutorials | Forum

Mr. Newman,
Thanks for posting the link to the forge plans that is exactly what I was looking for, perfect. Incredible 9” flares how would you like to pay that gas bill?
Lewis,
So it works, but has not been perfected as of yet? Sounds like a project to work on after I get a blown version going. Well no not a beer, you see I do the same thing in front of my tool boxes the drawer is open but I don’t remember what I need. I don’t think about what my body is doing, I’m much too busy, I only notice when the damned thing quits going through the motions.
John,
Seems like I never leave and never shut up? So when I saw Mr. Newman’s post and followed the link I started designing this, it is huge in my opinion, but I have no gas forge experience what do you think?

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The basket weave things are the burners two 4 X 6 and the center one is 4 X 10. The green lines indicate the maximum interior space. By building walls as necessary I think I can get three different configurations. Do you see any problems or have any improvements you would add to the design?

JNewman,
You’ll not get an argument from me about over complicating things, I can make a production out of putting on my socks. Knife making is new to me, however, it is why I feel I need something other than just a coal forge. It’s true I don’t do production work, but then again I never know what kind of trouble I’ll get into next. I was going on what John said, three 10” burners would be fine for a 40” forge. And it is true I don’t need, at this time anyway, a forge with a 36” interior every day or maybe even at all, I’ve never had a gas forge. In truth I, like most people in the world, could get by with a dirt forge and charcoal, but I don’t want to. I like tools, making them and using them, the ribbon forge seems like a nice tool, so I want one. I’ve never seen any plans that use ribbon burners, do you know where I could see any? My intention is to usually use one burner, but like I said, I never know what I’ll do next week. A blacksmith forge is very basic, stack up some bricks or dig a hole add fire, the more efficiency and control you want the more complicated the design. I want efficiency, control and the ability to expand its capacity, yes, I want it all. I don’t need a ribbon forge in the next few hours, or even the next few days, I’m not in that big of a rush. I do want the best I can build the first time, the forge itself is the project. When it’s completed, I’ll probably be a little more concerned about how much I have overshot its necessity, but I doubt it. I like tools, having one that overshoots its absolute original purpose has never made me sorry, having one that just meets it has. Do you really feel from your past experience with gas forges and your knowledge of ribbon forges that the design has no merit?
Bob

I think my words are proving ineffective at conveying my ideas and intention. Writing is my most effective method of communicating, and as everyone can see I fail at it incessantly. Perhaps it would prove more efficient to capitulate. Allow me to withdraw my plan and instead request guidance from experienced and learned professionals. How would you go about designing a ribbon forge, with efficiency, control and the ability to expand its capacity?
Bob

I'll second John's and Larry's advice. Building a forge isn't hard, though your first one can be frustrating until you get a sense of how to tune it and how to know when you've got it right. A big multi-burner forge will be more difficult to learn on.

I really think the best approach is to build a small, simple forge, get it running well, and see what you like and don't like about it. If you're like most smiths, you'll find it works fine for 90% of your work. If you ultimately decide that you need a bigger forge, build one. You'll probably still use the small one for most of your work, and it will use a lot less propane.

Bob I gotta say I agree with the others ...... suck it and see. Just have a mess around, it's my usual way of researching ... a little bit of information from the internet to get you started and then have a go, make mistakes, learn A LOT

That said take ALL safety precautions possible with propane. On thing thats not often mentioned are flame failure devices. They cut out the gas supply if they don't sense heat. I once didn't fully shut down my forge, there was a slight but unnoticable leak of propane through the burner that wasn't burnt. I say unoticable, it wasn't the next morning .... the workshop stank of propane. I fitted a flame failure device VERY soon after. They are cheap, readily available, plenty of info out there via google, and are potential life savers.

Re a forge, my advice ... if it's your first one is make (one or more) 3/4" atmoshpheric burner (ultra simple, LOTS of info out there, thousands and thousand have been sucessfully made, no electricity, VERY cheap and usually VERY effective) and play around with piles of soft fire bricks in different configurations. THEN when you've some experience under your belt, tailor your forge chamber to suit and play around with other burners.

My 3 off 3/4" burner forge has done me proud for many years and it's only now I'm starting to thing about more advance options such as ribbon burners (I'm VERY interested), blowers, temperature control, recupertive forges etc etc. If you have a peek at my website (URL below) you'll see that nearly all the work there was made using this forge ... it ranges from delicate to chunky to long and thin and round and fat. Gas forges and piles of fire bricks (with maybe ceramic fibreboards for wide roofs) are VERY VERY VERY adaptable. There are no "univeral" designs. You have to find out what right for YOU. I would imagine no two professional smiths have identical forges (and a good few end up with two or more diffrerent sizes)

I also have a coal forge but it very rarely gets used, and probably never will now I've got and induction heater. Gas forges, induction heaters and oxy-propane torches are far more usable and productive heat sources for my needs.

a 40" forge is an unbelieavbly big forge even for a professional. Mine is only about 600mm long and it's very rare I needed longer. What also hasn't been mentioned is that if you get a 40" forge upto a good yellow heat, you'll be pumping a LOT of heat into your workshop via the exhaust gases. If your work shop is small and unventilated it will become almost unworkably hot

I'll take some more detailed pictures of the 3 burner. It's the one on the right, the one on the left is a one burner. The induction forge is the "tower computer on the left". The coal forge is under the metal sheet sheet that the induction heater sits on.

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"Well, that’s three votes I shut up and go away"

No one is telling you to go away. You need to, however, value the entire spectrum of answers you are getting. You are getting some very good advice.

I have, on several occasions, wanted (and tried to), make that "Swiss Army Knife" forge that will fit every requirement. I have made no less than a dozen forges, both aspirated and blown (for myself and others) over the past six years (from very small, to thirty inches in length).

I have come to the conclusion that a "serves all purposes" forge is not practical, for all of the reasons covered in previous posts, and more. It isn't that you couldn't build a huge forge and use cutoff switches to limit the active burners, and movable walls inside the forge to make the burn chamber smaller, it's that, at least from my experineces, you shouldn't. This is from someone who has done all that and generally scrapped those efforts. I don't even put idle circuits in anymore. I do use needle valves on each burner though so I can adjust (or turn off) the propane at the burner level.

The forge I use the most is made from an 8 inch cylinder with sliding soft brick doors and a slot down one side so I can put larger things in from the side. The slot is covered with soft brick about 99% of the time.

It is well known (cuz I am a blabbermount) that I am working on another forge right now (with the ribbon burner). I am doing that only because I wanted a quieter forge. The ribbon burner I bought works better with a larger, rather than a smaller forge. I just finished (and ran) the second forge I made for it. This second forge has a .75 cubic foot burn chamber (smallest size recommended by Pine Ridge Burners). I don't expect this forge will ever be my primary forge because, for most of the projects I like to do, it's too big. It will also probably use more than double the propane while in use. It does get to welding heat and will evenly heat the larger projects I plan to work on (up to 2.5 inch square solid and 3 inch round bar).

I, however, will still use my small, aspirated forge for most of what I do because it's less expensive to use, easier and faster to light, comes up to forging heat faster, is easily movable and takes up a lot less room in my shop when I'm using it. I can also use a BBQ sized tank, which you could not with a humongus forge (smaller tanks freeze up when the propane is drawn quickly).

Another thing... If you don't have any experience using gas forges, it probably would be better (and safer) to learn using a small forge.

You will not get better advice than you have received from the many folks on this form (with years of experience) that are willing to share their experiences with you. Most of these folks will have made their own forges. Please, be a little less demanding to this audience, and don't discount their advice.

JNewman;2726 wrote: Come on David you just wanted to show off that induction heater again and gloat:stomp:

Exactly what I thought when I saw the photo. He really digs his induction heater. Wish I had one.

FYI. I measured the holes in my pine ridge burner .300 on the nose

Larry...

I assuming you are asking about the little round forge I posted a picture of..

I cast the floor outside the forge. I use Plastek 85 ramable refractory. I'm sure other brands will work also, but this stuff is impervious to flux, and heats up quickly. I just make a little wooden frame (box without a bottom) the size I need, about an inch in depth. I set the frame on something smooth (sheet metal), then I work the refractory into it, building a dome up beyond the wood. The dome closely matches the arc of the forge with one inch of Kaowool in it.

I use a small block of wood (the full length of the frame) and a hammer to "Ram" the refractory into the frame and form the dome.

I put the first layer of Kaowool in the forge from under the shelf, all the way around to the shelf. Then I carefully lift the frame, pushing down on the refractory. Then I carefully lift the (soft) refractory into the forge, sitting it on the Kaowool. If you have trouble picking up the "ramed refractory", slide a piece of sheet metal under it (the same size), then hold that in the forge, pushing the refractory off the sheet metal into the forge. The bottom of it sits just below the channel I have welded on the frame (for the sliding soft brick doors). Then I put in the second layer of Kaowool from the refractory around to the shelf (or floor). The door channels keep the refractory in place.

I use nichrome wire, pushed like a staple from outside above the slot (holes have been drilled already) through both layers of Kaowool, bending them over inside (this holds the Kaowool in place.

Then I cut, with a knife... through the Kaowool across on the top of the slot at a slight down angle. I cut the soft brick with a hand saw (at an angle) so it slides into the forge, up against the refractory on the bottom and the Kaowool on the slant, making a seal against the Kaowool and refractory.

If your question is about the ribbon burner forge.....

On the forge I made for the ribbon burner, I used a ceramic board I bought (because I had it). It will get replaced with Plastek 85 if I have problems with it. The floor on that forge is 12 x 18 inches). The forge is a fabricated steel box with a flat bottom. I put soft brick (cut to the proper height) on the entire floor to sit the ceramic board on. The bricks come up to the height of the top of the channel iron. The floor sits on the soft brick and goes out the door (over the inside of the channel) to where the soft brick slide in the channel. I slid the floor into the forge through the slot, then I lined the forge with two layers of (1 inch) Kaowool.

That floor is held in place by the forge body on the backside of the forge (the ceramic board was notched so it slid all the way back.