Entry Table

[Lynn Gledhill]

Here are some pic's of a table I made this past week. When I first conceived the idea, I thought I could build it in a couple of hours.... Then, my learning began... I first made a prototype leg... I had drawn the leg on my welding table, traced it with wire, estimating the length of material needed to make the leg. This table is made of 3/8 square... "Must overbuild", quote Bruce MacMillan. It's a little wobbly out of 3/8. The prototype came out about 10 inches too long, the leaf on the scroll easily 4 inches too long... So what to do?? Math?? I am a blacksmith!! What's math got to do with this craft?? Well, the double scroll at the bottom requires some circle geometry and formulas to calculate the length of material to make the double scroll and the leaf... I googled circle geometry and learned how to calculate the length of an arc of a circle.
All's great now... Until I forged the leaf ends, turned the scrolls on jigs. Then, had to adjust the length of the legs, 'cause if you forge out just a little bit more material for the leaf, you now have a problem with length. I arched the legs in just a bending tool. I adjusted all of this and then welded the three legs. Very difficult to actually weld them 120 degrees apart. After welding... guess what??? The whole damn thing had warped!! After straightening the legs, again!! I chucked it up in the vise to wrap the middle... Of course, I bent the hell out of the leg that was clamped in the vise... I learned a lot from doing this project. Would some of you more experienced smiths help me ?? What tricks do you know??? I am pretty certain that if I was making this for a client, that it would be rejected, because it is not stable enough. Thanks for looking... appreciate your advice.

Lynn

Makes my house look real crappy!

[Grant]

Has a lot of nice elements to it and you learned a LOT! Right? Just don't bump it! Yep, I always said I was either makin' money or learning.............sometimes way too much learnin'! Still............looks like a keeper.

[John Bellamy]

Here are some pic's of a table I made this past week. When I first conceived the idea, I thought I could build it in a couple of hours.... Then, my learning began... I first made a prototype leg... I had drawn the leg on my welding table, traced it with wire, estimating the length of material needed to make the leg. This table is made of 3/8 square... "Must overbuild", quote Bruce MacMillan. It's a little wobbly out of 3/8. The prototype came out about 10 inches too long, the leaf on the scroll easily 4 inches too long... So what to do?? Math?? I am a blacksmith!! What's math got to do with this craft?? Well, the double scroll at the bottom requires some circle geometry and formulas to calculate the length of material to make the double scroll and the leaf... I googled circle geometry and learned how to calculate the length of an arc of a circle.
All's great now... Until I forged the leaf ends, turned the scrolls on jigs. Then, had to adjust the length of the legs, 'cause if you forge out just a little bit more material for the leaf, you now have a problem with length. I arched the legs in just a bending tool. I adjusted all of this and then welded the three legs. Very difficult to actually weld them 120 degrees apart. After welding... guess what??? The whole damn thing had warped!! After straightening the legs, again!! I chucked it up in the vise to wrap the middle... Of course, I bent the hell out of the leg that was clamped in the vise... I learned a lot from doing this project. Would some of you more experienced smiths help me ?? What tricks do you know??? I am pretty certain that if I was making this for a client, that it would be rejected, because it is not stable enough. Thanks for looking... appreciate your advice.

Lynn

Makes my house look real crappy!

Hi Lynn, Design and Choice of material are the main items to mention. From the design point

Stability is down to footprint and rigidity of structure, your top end should be rigid if secured to the table's top, however the bottom end can move outwards so may be prone to movement under load, the scrolls actually move the footprint nearer to the centre of the footprint thus reducing its stabilising effect.

The lower legs ideally should be 'tied' together to stop the spread and potential wobble, however this is not what you made in this piece.

Square section does not make for easy three leg construction, unless you have a location disc/ring at the centre, a feature in its own right, but you chose to wrap so not applicable, Round section will 'nest' better to position when securing at 120 degrees. Section is also a little light IMHO.

When calculating your lengths, scrolls are not arcs, far easier to figure out how much your work is going to grow by forging on a displacement estimate principle (Test pieces and notes on past bits help here until you get a good idea of the allowances required) and the wire measurement from your initial sketch.

The wrap also looks a little out of place with leaf ends as features, round may have looked better. IMHO.

As for a client rejecting it, I think you are doing yourself an injustice, and being hypercritical as you know where the perceived problems are. Try not to judge what others may think, we all have different tastes. So long as it does the job and is safe, and you have done your best, let it go.

I have made many what I consider hideous items to clients requiremnts that I coild not live with, but they have been ecstatic with them, no accounting for taste.

Hope this is constructive for you.

[David Einhorn]

Thank you for sharing. I think that it looks nice. What did you use as wood to frame the tiles? Is the wood a type of molding, or did the wood start out as square stock?

[Bruce Macmillan]

Good effort Lynn, A little light maybe but you pulled it off with style.....
When I'm doing long scroll shapes like yours I guesstimate the amount of draw after measuring the full scale layout, draw a line across, say the middle of the wrap area and add 6'' to each half. Write down the lengths do the work and place back on the layout, then refer back to the line and cut off the excess. Subtract the drop from the length and you got half of it figured out. Me, I'd do em all long cut em off weld em back together, grind, and cover that with the wrap and not lose any sleep over it but that's your call.
It took me a number of table projects to nail down the stability thing .......The wasp waist in the middle always invites the shakes, for a static table such as yours it's not such a problem but for a dining table where people are leaning and cutting on their steaks it's a disaster. Top heavy tables have built in issues as well......Hammering a round base plate and welding to the bottom of yours would help if you have problems with tipping....

[Lynn Gledhill]

Thank you for sharing. I think that it looks nice. What did you use as wood to frame the tiles? Is the wood a type of molding, or did the wood start out as square stock?

I can't take credit for the tile top. It was a scrap sample board from a tile supply. I do believe the wood is oak and looks like the construction is 1/4 round applied to a piece of plywood.

[Lynn Gledhill]

Good effort Lynn, A little light maybe but you pulled it off with style.....
When I'm doing long scroll shapes like yours I guesstimate the amount of draw after measuring the full scale layout, draw a line across, say the middle of the wrap area and add 6'' to each half. Write down the lengths do the work and place back on the layout, then refer back to the line and cut off the excess. Subtract the drop from the length and you got half of it figured out. Me, I'd do em all long cut em off weld em back together, grind, and cover that with the wrap and not lose any sleep over it but that's your call.

Bruce, I don't understand this part, "Subtract the drop from the length and you got half of it figured out." But this part... "Me, I'd do em all long cut em off weld em back together, grind, and cover that with the wrap and not lose any sleep over it but that's your call." Way too simple for me to think of it!... Just re-reading what you said, maybe I do understand that part... the drop is the piece you cut off, right?

[Lynn Gledhill]

[QUOTE=John Bellamy;12969] The lower legs ideally should be 'tied' together to stop the spread and potential wobble, however this is not what you made in this piece. [/QUOTE} I thought about this but couldn't think of a way to do it without disrupting what I would call the "flow of the design." I'll certainly plan on it and incorporate it in the next 3 legged table that I make.

Square section does not make for easy three leg construction, unless you have a location disc/ring at the centre, a feature in its own right,

Thanks, John... I just learned something.

Section is also a little light IMHO.

Yep, gotta learn to over-build.

The wrap also looks a little out of place with leaf ends as features, round may have looked better. IMHO.

Thanks, John... I hope my learning to producing ratio improves Seems to be running around 70:30... Took me 2 months to learn how to "kinda" use my LG 25.

[Bruce Macmillan]

Bruce, I don't understand this part, "Subtract the drop from the length and you got half of it figured out." But this part... "Me, I'd do em all long cut em off weld em back together, grind, and cover that with the wrap and not lose any sleep over it but that's your call." Way too simple for me to think of it!... Just re-reading what you said, maybe I do understand that part... the drop is the piece you cut off, right?

Well, when you subtract the cut off piece from the finished leg/scroll then you know how long to cut the stock before you forge it....combine that to the other half you did the same way and you could do it in one piece if you're uptight about welding.....That doesn't seem to bother you or me especially if that area is going to be covered. Leaving em long and cutting em off I like this best cause that little extra length is a handy handle for tongs or to use a bending fork when you need a little curve right at the parting line before you cut the bastard off and put it in the drop bucket...Got all that?

[Lynn Gledhill]

Well, when you subtract the cut off piece from the finished leg/scroll then you know how long to cut the stock before you forge it....combine that to the other half you did the same way and you could do it in one piece if you're uptight about welding.....That doesn't seem to bother you or me especially if that area is going to be covered. Leaving em long and cutting em off I like this best cause that little extra length is a handy handle for tongs or to use a bending fork when you need a little curve right at the parting line before you cut the bastard off and put it in the drop bucket...Got all that?

Beautiful, man