Employees? Kind of... | The Business of Blacksmith | Forum

While I am all for helping someone out and demoing things so that they can learn something, I would never let someone use my shop for their sales items. I had to aquire all my equipment, tools, etc before I could make any money. I was able to learn techniques by going to hammer-ins and demos that cost money and time. This is the learning curve necessary for a sucessful business.
Who replaces your forge that burns down or the fire pot that gets cracked. Do you let them strike on your $1200.00 anvil or use your $3500.00 plus power hammer? What about the drill bits burned up or punches spalled and bent.
If you want to keep these people as friends tell them NO.:unsure:

Anne Bujold;15788 wrote: I can certainly understand the sentiment that you've worked hard to get to where you are and to have the things you use to make a living at - though I'm in the situation where I don't know where I'd be if it weren't for the generosity of someone who has allowed me to come in, rent space, and use the tools I couldn't yet afford.

I don't think anyone should do something that puts them outside of their comfort zone, and if it is a good deal to you - you like having more of a community in your shop, or there is some other benefit to having those people around - well then that's up to you. What percentage you take should be based on an estimate of what it costs you, but sometimes having more people around can generate more interest in what you're doing... Not a direct financial reward, perhaps?

I think there are very few folks in this endeavor - well, are there any?- who got to where they were trying to go completely on their own, reading books and saving up for one tool at a time? It seems that everyone gets help from someone, somewhere, and to turn around and help others who are trying to go that way is the repayment.
Though liability and people breaking the stuff you use to make a living are certainly issues. Being choosy about who you share space with is certainly smart, as with most areas of life.

Just coming for the other perspective... as someone who has not yet "gotten there," so perhaps I would feel differently if I were on the other side. But I know the generosity of the person that I rent space from is something that I never take for granted; I treat his tools with the utmost respect; I buy my own at every opportunity; and if I ever broke any of his things I would absolutely fix/replace them. And the chance to get started was something I could never put a dollar value on, as cheesy as that may sound.

Anne, I so agree,

I have a student coming in each week to learn blacksmithing...Seems each time he wants to punch a hole he goes for my 1/8th inch punch... With his skills he could destroy the punch in a heartbeat, and every time he punched a hole I would have to re-forge the punch. When he came in after that, I told him, "Today you will be making a punch, or punches. 'cause you will no longer be using mine...Lastly he was working on making an axe head... I was away and figured that he had the knowledge and skills to be in the shop by himself, without supervision... While away, he broke one pair of tongs and tweaked two other pairs... So, I said, you can make some tongs to replace the ones that you screwed up... When it came time for him to chisel the eye for his axe head, I said,' okay, it's time for you to make a chisel so you can cut the hole for your axe!! He's damn sure not to use my chisels to do the job!!! I do really believe in giving to teach, however, this man pays me $20 for a two hour class... Probably burns $3 worth of propane, has destroyed $50 worth of punches, $125 worth of tongs. Am I making money on this??? The best part for me... I had a boys group over to forge tomahawks from railroad spikes... Had their Dad's along for the muscle... I had my student over to supervise?!::?? I realized as he was guiding these boys thru the project, that damn, he has been learning something!!!:spin::spin::spin:

I agree with all the comments, it just depends on where you're coming from. I have a friend that drops by my shop occasionally because I sparked his interest in smithing; I haven't charged him beyond propane cost, knowing full well that I'm risking tool wear. After a few visits, I gained considerable trust in regard to tool abuse. Because I'm still in the steep part of the blacksmith learning curve, the idea exchange and collaborative thinking outweigh the risks and my shop cost in my opinion. I don't have the skill set or time to do what Steve does - calling my buddy a pupil would be a bit tongue-in-cheek. I taught some basics, and now we're learning together.

Zachary was asking for business advice, and my take on that is also it just depends. Will you make a commission? Do you feel that you need their blades to supplement the blades you can make in order to profit? Are they paying for instruction? If not, an extreme view is that they are your competition! Charge them for all costs plus marketing plus profit! Or, maybe just some shop rent if the collaborative factor is going to slingshot your own ideas. How generous are you and how generous can you afford to be? If I was a busy full-time smith I'd hire them as employees or train them as apprentices, or else not let them in the shop (except on guest days)...sharing shop space is a lot like communal living: it either works for everyone or it doesn't. If it's your shop, it better work for you. Don't allow them to ruin your tools. I paid a minimal amount for my early shop time/instruction, and immediately started buying my own tools. Money-wise, I don't think there is a standard.