What constitutes Hoarding? | Sorta Like Blacksmithing | Forum

I was jokingly poking at Larry about Hoarding/Collecting, my comments were more directed at the guys Ive run into at auctions who outbid everyone for even a semi decent anvil, then when ya go say Hi to them and ask if they are in the trade they say No, I just buy up the ones I see and resell them, or they say they are holding onto the ones they have and are not blacksmiths. I did not mean to imply all people who sell anvils are over valuing them, but i've seen alot that are. I however have been lucky in my purchases, the small 125 pound that I an holding for my son to use cost me 80, my 300+ pounder did cost me 400, but the rare saw filers I got my mits on cost me 100. But I have personally seen people asking 400 for anvils that are beat all to hell and back. Then there is the guy in California that has a warehouse full of them and tries to ask outrageous prices for each one or i think he was asking 24k cash for all of them. Things like that just urk me. I had one guy telling me he wanted 175 bucks for a offset hammer. And they weighed less than the 5 lb one I got for 65 bucks. Another instance I saw an anvil on craigs selling for 100, I called the guy and he has just sold it to a guy he described as very excited about the buy, a week later I saw him selling the same damn anvil on craigslist for 400+.
I just get worked up over things like this and I am not the only one who has seen things like it. I was kidding at larry about his Pile o Anvils just because I respect the hell out of him and know he doesnt do it. Case in point being the Hammer we just concluded the deal on. The one I sent back with him i am just trying to recoop what I put into it. Otherwise I would sell it for 1k like I paid for it. When I contacted the company that bought out the people who made my saw filers anvil and was told the same sized one new they sell for 4k+. I almost had a kitten, but I'd never sell it because I have an attachment to it.

The market is set by the buyer not the seller.

Well, I can't let that go unchallenged. The price may be set by the seller, but the market is set buy the buyers (IMHO). Hence "Something is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it".

True market forces at work, good 'ol supply and demand.

Grant;1715 wrote: Well, I can't let that go unchallenged. The price may be set by the seller, but the market is set buy the buyers (IMHO). Hence "Something is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it".

True market forces at work, good 'ol supply and demand.

Um grant I think you are agreeing with me while challenging me

Seems to me the problem (if it is one) with hoarders is not that they try to buy low and sell high, but that they increase demand by buying up anvils they don't plan to use. Or you could think of them as reducing supply by keeping all those anvils out of circulation, but it amounts to the same thing.

On the other hand, if they soak up supply and increase prices, it may help keep anvils from going to scrap. Hoarders may part with their anvils eventually; steel furnaces never do.

And if hoarders really are buying for investment, arguably they help regulate the market. If there's a surplus of anvils being sold, the hoarders will soak it up and prevent the price from getting too close to scrap prices (and help ensure there's a market for those who need to sell). If there's a shortage, the hoarders will sell and keep the price spike from going too high. Whether that actually happens, of course, is another question.

Eric Sprado;1718 wrote: Larry: I hope it wasn't the anvil I offered you a grand cash for a while back that you sold on Ebay for 750?? Oh well- I understand if it was. I have a cherry 2000 F250 pickup with contractor racks etc. that I was trying to get $4000 for but will take LESS NOW!!! Times being what they are---------

Sounds like a good deal on the ford..

Nope I still have that 400lb anvil... I might take your grand now... that would be a break even deal on that guy, These days break even is maybe all a guy can ask for...

David Browne;1749 wrote: A guy walks into a bar...and announces that he has a 150lb Peter Wright anvil to sell.

Inside the bar there are: 3 hobby blacksmiths that are all looking for their first anvil to get started smithing, an eccentric anvil "collector" from California, a grumpy old retired guy who claims that his grandfather was a blacksmith, and a metalworker from the Pacific Northwest.

One of the young hobby smiths stands up and excitedly says "I've been looking for just this anvil, in just this weight, in just this condition over for two years! I can’t wait another minute to get started smithing. I only have $425.00 to spend. How much do you want for it?"

The tool monger calmly replies, "I am asking $450.00 ($3/lb), but it is in perfect original condition. You won’t find a nicer one anywhere.”

The young smith replies, “I’ll give you $425.00 for it, it’s all I have”. “No, $450.00 is my price, not a penny less. Do you realize how much these things go for on Ebay? This is a deal!” Dejected, the young smith sits down, realizing that he cannot afford the anvil.

The eccentric collector from California chimes in, “If I didn’t already have seven of this exact anvil, I would buy it myself and I would have been willing to pay up to $1,000.00 for this anvil in this pristine condition”.

The other two hobby smiths are frantically reaching for their wallets. They are both computer programmers with plenty of money, and this seems like a really nice anvil to get them started on their lifelong dream of making swords.

Before they can get to their cash, the grumpy old guy jumps up and exclaims “I can’t take it anymore, this is outrageous! When I was a kid, there were anvils scattered all over the place. You could get them for practically nothing. NO used anvil is worth more than $2.25/lb and certainly not this one”! I wouldn’t pay a penny more than $300.00, and anyone who would is a fool”!

The two hobby smiths just stare at each other. The grumpy old guy really seems to know his stuff (after all, his grandfather was a blacksmith). What would all the other hobby blacksmiths think of them if they paid an extra $150.00 to fulfill their lifelong dream of making swords? Not wanting to make a horrific blacksmithing mistake so early on in their career, the two would-be sword makers sit back down.

The grumpy old guy takes a second look at the anvil. It is nice. Probably the nicest one he has ever seen. Perfect edges, no cut marks, gouges or sway in the face. And that horn, that really shapely horn…it does have a sleek stylish rake to its stance…this is a really nice old anvil he thinks to himself…he excitedly blurts out “I’ll give you $440.00 for it and not a penny more”, just as the metalworker from the Pacific Northwest hands the man a check for $450.00 and says “I’ve been looking for a nice 2nd anvil for the shop. This one is perfect and will increase my production by 35-40%. Heck, it’ll pay for itself in the first week”.

As the metalworker walks out of the bar smiling with the anvil under his arm, the grumpy old man turns to the others and says “can you believe how much that idiot paid for that anvil”?

All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

You should have said hi! I had no idea you where in that bar when I bought that anvil....

David Browne;1749 wrote:
“I’ve been looking for a nice 2nd anvil for the shop. This one is perfect and will increase my production by 35-40%. Heck, it’ll pay for itself in the first week”.

Bang on there David, what seems astronomical to the dreamy sword maker is often peanuts to the "working" smith. Especially when productivity over a long period of time is considered.

Contractors will quite happily shell out a few hundred pounds for a power tool without thinking, so the same for an anvil really aint that much. Should either of my anvils ever "break down", a new one at around £1000 isn't that much when spread out over a few years so a few hundred for good second hand one is a bit of a bargain.

Lets not forget that these old anvils were TOOLS made for working or industrial smiths, they certainly weren't aimed at the "weekend smith" ....oops, treading on people's delicate pinkies again

Just a note about my "sink" forge. I used a blower from a junk car heater. Ran for a little while with an old battery and a trickle charger. Later I picked up a toy train transformer, worked great! Just the price of a few plumbing fittings.

One of the first things I made was a pair and a half of tongs. You see I was "smart", I knew I had to make one piece right hand and one piece left hand!:bounce:

david hyde;1753 wrote: Bang on there David, what seems astronomical to the dreamy sword maker is often peanuts to the "working" smith. Especially when productivity over a long period of time is considered.

David, my thoughts exactly. Just get on with it already. I see guys waiting for a "deal", when they could have been hammering. The 100 dollars that they are hoping to save really doesn't mean much when spread out over the course of a few years. I look at it like this, there are tools I "must" have. There are tools I "need" to have. There are tools I would "like" to have and there are tools that would be really "cool" to have. I don't worry about paying too much for the "must and need" to haves. I get a bit more stingy on the "cool" to haves...