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Marketing Your Business?
August 17, 2010
1:53 am
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Lewis
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sam salvati;2002 wrote: become an asset not just another salesman!

That reminds me, one part of my pitch to designers and builders is 'mutually profitable relationship'. I think it's a key principle for individual clients too, they want to feel like they will be better off after paying you, even if they have less actual cash.

People need to be happy if they are going to be repeat business or send their friends to you.

August 17, 2010
2:40 am
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Larry L
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david hyde;1998 wrote: Whatever it is you do these days Larry it amazes me how you find the time, you seem to have your finger in so many pies.

Actually what is most of your work these days? I seem to remember over on IFI a few months back you said it was mostly fabrication but moving more towards forging.

Well at the moment I have a big gate project that involves some forged bits... its 33' wide and 9 feet tall.. A big ass gate....

But the bread and butter things... Well I just built two "six pack" racks for the local welding supply rental guy... basically crane pic-able boxes that each hold 6 inverter welders with all the electrical ganged.. Saturday I built two little fixtures for a local poweder coat shop that hold a hundred little special parts each.... Sunday and today I have been working on a bag scale for the shavings outfit that is in my industrial complex... This contraption is a scale that has a whirligig inside and a bag attached so when so much sawdust falls in a bag it shuts off the flow.... they could only do two a minuet because it woudnt let enough through... so I split it in half and made it twice as big (I am working on it anyway) I took a picture of the deal so I could figure out how to get it back together..

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[Image Can Not Be Found] Its not the work I would do if I could do what ever I want... But I have found that the only work that I dont find rewarding... is the work I dont put my heart into.. When I am done with this gizmo I'll feel good about it.... its a freakin scale and quite nit-picky... Would I rather be building a hand forged chandelier? Some days sure.. But this is a time and materials job, and a challenge.... The way I see my shop is its this kind of work that has allowed me to build up a pile of fun equipment and opened the doors to forging and more creative endeavors... If I had to rely on my skills as a blacksmith to equip my shop Im afraid Id be lucky to have an anvil and vise that I owned free and clear... But as it stands Ive got a lot of fun toys that have been paid for by jobs that most "blacksmiths" would raise there nose at..

Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln

August 17, 2010
2:54 am
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Larry L
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As I was walking away from my computer I had an epiphany... The best description I could come up to describe what I am is "whore" Although I have my limits (what upstanding prostitute doesn't?)

The way I see it is if your problem has to do with metal... There is a negotiable amount of money for which I will make your problem my problem....

This was found on Wiki

The English word whore derives from the Old English word hōra, from the Indo-European root meaning "desire". Use of the word whore is widely considered pejorative, especially in its modern slang form of ho'. In Germany most prostitutes' organizations deliberately use the word Hure (whore) since they feel that prostitute is a bureaucratic term. Those seeking to remove the social stigma associated with prostitution often promote terminology such as Metal Worker:help:

Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln

August 17, 2010
4:38 am
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Grant
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From now on you be my "Ho"? Along with my White Bitch! (That's her picture on the left).

“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~

August 17, 2010
10:19 am
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david hyde
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Larry L;2005 wrote: Well at the moment I have a big gate project that involves some forged bits... its 33' wide and 9 feet tall.. A big ass gate....

fun equipment and opened the doors to forging and more creative endeavors... If I had to rely on my skills as a blacksmith to equip my shop Im afraid Id be lucky to have an anvil and vise that I owned free and clear... But as it stands Ive got a lot of fun toys that have been paid for by jobs that most "blacksmiths" would raise there nose at..

Yo HO!

that's a big gate

With you on the work. When I was at the transition of jewellery/smithing stage i spent a lot of time torch cutting (melting!!) "alien" faces out of copper sheet. No fun at all. In the early "smithing" days I was basically just cutting and welding up kit form components gates. No fun at all. At the moment I'm getting some interesting commissions but I'm prepared to do "dull" work if they dry up. Survival comes first, followed by buying the toys, followed by the things of "normal" life.

August 17, 2010
2:09 pm
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Mills
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One of the better things I have done is joined a local chapter of BNI which is very much along the lines of Grants description of building relationships. One of each business is in a particular chapter and gives referrals to each other. My group has about 40 members and the number one referrer to others was the hairdresser. I am in with the handyman, roofer, landscaper, fence builder. These guys are always needing something done in steel and I get first nod. When I am out installing I am looking out for them as well as the alarm company and pool guy. The relationship aspect allows me to get to know local business outside of my usual and who I can really trust to outsource some of my work to when needed.

I also read about everything Grant John Larson and John N have to say.

As for a slogan "From Thought to Fire, in Steel" is the hook I use. I originally went with a version of if you can think it I can make it But aside from being well worn some folks could think of stuff I could not or did not want to make. So it needs to be an idea that involves forging and steel with no implication I can or will build every thing. But i'll think about it.

August 17, 2010
2:29 pm
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Larry L
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Mills;2018 wrote: some folks could think of stuff I could not or did not want to make.

I dont think I have ever turned down a job.. If it was something I really didn't want to do I quoted about twice what I thought the job was worth...

Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln

August 17, 2010
3:08 pm
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JNewman
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Larry L;2019 wrote: I dont think I have ever turned down a job.. If it was something I really didn't want to do I quoted about twice what I thought the job was worth...

The only problem with that is sometimes you get the job :banghead: I quoted this job to not get it. It was before I bought the Massey. The bar is 2.5" square, but it had to be upset to 4" at the bend. When the steel company made them in their Blacksmith shop they would start with 4" square but I knew my little 100lb Kinyon hammer (may have been 50 at the time) would not touch 4" stock. So I upset it to 4" at the bend by hand, and then only had to draw out square bar. I did make money on the job but I had quoted it at 3 times what I though it was worth.

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September 3, 2010
3:46 am
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Grant;1524 wrote: A subject dear to my heart! My first advice would be this: Don't go looking for work or asking for work. Might be a few people who actually want to give you work, but mostly they don't care whether you have work or not. Course there are a few customers who will throw you some work when you're desperate, but that's charity not business.

They give you work because it solves a problem for them. Most of them come to work and have a pile of problems on their desk. Put yourself in their shoes. How do you feel when a salesman takes up your time? Don't go looking for work, go looking for how you can solve problems for people. That should become your goal. They will pay handsomely anyone who lifts some of the load off their shoulders, and the more you lift off the better they will be willing to pay.

When you get work, try to make it as seamless as possible for the customer. Don't ask the customer to buy the material. Find out everything that needs to happen to the part you're making. If it's going to be tested, painted, sandblasted, boxed or anything, offer to take care of it. You don't have to do it for free. You're taking away a lot of headaches for the customer. Now he doesn't have to birddog the part everywhere or even think about where it is or where it needs to go next. And you can mark up all of it! Business isn't really about the money, that's just how we measure it.

Customers love “one stop shopping”. They often have to get something made and maybe had to get the material and then they have to get it heat treated and tested and this and that. They love having someone who will do everything AND take responsibility. That's a big deal. If anything goes wrong there's only one guy to turn to – you! That's OK, responsibility pays well.

You think you're a forger or blacksmith or whatever. But you really need your customer to think of you as a problem solver and someone who can relieve some of his load. Quit thinking about finding work and spend your time thinking about how you can be of real service to your customers. I had customer who would consult with me because I could (and would) tell them whether their item should be a weldment, a casting or a forging. I became an expert who they could turn to who had their interest at heart.

Build alliences with all of your suppliers. Steel suppliers, heat treaters, painters, industrial suppliers and many others can be great for sending referrals. Make some kind of useful widget for the sales counter. Make sure everyone knows what you can do. When asked most people actually want to be able to refer people to someone. Don't get cheap on this, they can be a full time sales staff for you.

Don't forget people who do similar types of work, but have different capacities or capabilities. For instance, many people with fancy mandrel benders or rolls, can't do large bar or tight bends that are easily done hot. Lots of iron shops can't do what you can do. Ask for some of their cards and explain what you do and that you are looking for someone to refer your customers to for things they are better able to do. And “Oh yeah, would you like to have some of my cards for any customers that we can help”?

Remember this: It's always easier to get more business from the customers you already have than to find new customers. Always try to get plant tours, many items in their operation they have no idea that you can make. Keep a sharp eye out for problems you can offer a solution to. Usually they have no idea how a bit of hot working can save them. Look at the “hillbilly upsetter” thread.

Just remember; quit trying to make money and focus on how you can save your customer time, money and headaches. Become a problem solver for your customers and they will never take a second glance at your bills. Ati that point, they don't just need you, they want you.

Saw this somewhere: "You will be enriched as you enrich others".

Other than the first part of this post, I agree w/Grant. I have found that it does not hurt your business to be honest and say that work has been slower than usual. Many of my clients are/or have experienced the same thing, no matter how much money they have. It is important to set up a symbiotic relationship where you can empathize with your clients sensibilities and still work with them on their project....obviously to your benefit. It's called schmoozing...

John Emmerling
Gearhart Ironwerks

September 3, 2010
3:14 pm
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Larry L
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And I know you can Schmooooozz with the best of them John...;)

Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln

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