5:25 pm
March 22, 2010
I was reading some online rants (posted elsewhere on the web) about views regarding blacksmithing.. It was pretty clear to me the fellow thought the rank and file of blacksmith organizations are wanna-bees and glorified welders... He himself was one of the very few... (less than a handful), of "real" blacksmiths in the organization.... And further more it seemed that rather than help the cause most of us glorified welders and wanna-bees where damaging to the preservation.. That with our machines and our lack of skill we perverted the craft.. It also seemed from the posts that his feeling was we should all just go away and leave the blacksmithing to the blacksmiths...
I will be the first to admit I do not have the skill of a master smith... I was not lucky enough to apprentice with one, or even with a lousy wanna be smith... I dont not hold a Certificate of Merit in the Worshipful company of Blacksmiths, let alone a Gold Metal Journeyman.
I dont claim to be a master of any craft, but rather a disciple. I am a member of the Metal Church.... I attend, glorify and rejoice.... I seek truth and knowledge from those in the congregation who wish to share the good news... I strive to understand and live a life in tune with the ways of the church... Support my fellow church members and carry the message...
I dont understand the exclusionary ideals... that unless you fit narrow criteria your not worthy... My church extends welcoming hands to everyone.... If your just curious or a master... I want to encourage and support any blacksmith, glorified welder or wanna-bee.. If they are making there first forged knife out of a file in a coffee can forge or if they are a 10th generation smith in a third world country that has never seen a powerhammer or a gas fire.. Or even if they have never struck a hot chunk of steel but are fascinated by those of us who do... They are all brothers (and welcome) in the Metal Church....
So..... tell me frankly what you think..... Tell me where you fit in... Tell me why your view is valid and mine is flawed (or that you agree, or that yellow makes you sad, or what ever you think is worth the time to spew on to the page)
Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln
6:43 pm
June 24, 2010
Larry,
I agree. What good would a blacksmithing organization be if you had to be a master smith before you could join?
Not sure about the church analogy, though. There's one near me that advertises itself as the church for people who don't go to church. It's kind of nice knowing it's there. But I have a feeling that if I went, it wouldn't be for me. :p
7:13 pm
June 10, 2010
I tend to agree with you, I'm a Jack of all trades and a master of none. I have learned a lot from most people in the blacksmith community, both hobbyist and professional. If there is one group within that community that I have learned the least from would be the "true path" group. I'm not sure if it is that they don't want to share, or they just don't like what I'm doing. I've worked with people that I feel are master smiths, both have taught or are still teaching at Herefordshire Collage and I have found them wonderful people, more than glad to work with you and show you tricks, even help with my designs, I never felt once that my work wasn't valid, and found them encouraging.
Now maybe if I want to be part of the Worshipful Company of Blacksmiths I will need to complete my training and pass their standards. I would expect that.
It would be nice to see a school that teach the skills with some type of curriculum similar to what is in Europe, but at this stage in life I doubt that I would enroll. My work is what it is, I do try to put my best out there, and it is what feeds me. My shop is very basic my primary tools are a gas forge and anvil, but I rarely call myself a blacksmith, and decided to say I'm a Metalsmith as it was a word I couldn't find in the dictionary.
The blacksmithing community is very diverse and welcoming it would be nice if it stays that way. Yes there will be sub groups within the community and that is its strong point, it gives everyone a home.
7:45 pm
NWBA Member
November 8, 2010
Hallelujia, brother!
Wasn't Metal Church , the band, from Seattle ??:banghead: Headbangers unite!~
I've gotten the "people shouldn't call themselves blacksmiths if..."
Their criteria seems to be if you haven't:
1:Gone to Hereford
2:Gone to Carbondale
3:Taught at Penland for three years
then you don't qualify.
It's not unlike the real world, whereas the bias against people without a college degree is very real in employment discrimination, etc. Doesn't mean you can't do the work.
I did catch wind of a post on Iforge that said you could earn an engineering degree or PhD with the time most of us put into the craft, even part time. I'd agree. I'm sure many of the top knife makers could tell you more about inter-metallic compounds than a third year metallurgy student. Going further- why do I get sotfware engineers and architects trying to beat my door down for classes and knowledge to satisfy their romantic vision for something creative and real? Who made me the expert??
I don't regret for a minute doing that first street fair years ago and deciding this was something I really liked. Am I full-time? No, despite people telling me for ten years "you're ready". I've tried to take a much more Zen-like approach to it and focus on the process. For this reason I've really liked working on furniture or small functional objects. I'll quote Jeff Holtby- "I'm a steward of the craft"
Nothing more, nothing less.
They only remember you when you SCREW UP~!!!
1:29 am
NWBA Member
April 19, 2010
All inclusive is the word. Love metal? Let's have a beer and enjoy what we have in common!! Besides: When I finished my shoeing apprentice a zillion years ago I had a chance to go to Colorado and spend the Summer doing COLD shoeing on dude strings. I sheepishly asked Sarge if that would be okay. He said Hell YES. For one thing I would get in a lot of nailing practice AND,MOST IMPORTANT: Sarge told me to watch EVERYBODY,even the least trained shoers,because EVERYBODY has some little trick you can learn!!! I'm still having a hard time shutting up a listening,but it is an ongoing learning process..
3:14 am
December 10, 2010
I agree whole heartedly. that said, there is an interesting twist to some of us "new wave" blacksmiths ... when the power goes out... some of us are going to need to change the way we do things. I myself am going to have to find a non electric blower. but to say that we don't belong simply because we don't do things the same way reminds me of a time when certain people had no rights... can we say "idiots" ... anywho I have an open mind and believe there is no ONE way to start a fire, skin a cat, or open a bottle... therefore, I consider you all my brothers and sisters in the craft and believe that if we do not have an open mind, we will NEVER learn a damn thing. And I personaly want to learn.
Keep on Forgin
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.
Albert Einstein
3:26 am
August 2, 2010
Larry, the church analogy is a pretty good one. Yours might be inclusive but there are lots who would expell the heratics. Maybe your exclusionary blacksmith is in a different sect.
I'm involved with a small group of guys who email each other pretty regularly about smithing and fabricating and metalworking of all types and get together whenever we can. Internally we call ourselves the metal whores- not very churchly but pretty much descriptive of our attitude. People pay us to make things and solve problems not tell them about the purity of our motives. I love blacksmithing techniques and I'm working hard at improving my skills and knowledge but I also know that not every task is a blacksmithing 1900 or 1750 or 1600 task. I combine techniques freely and I think most modern blacksmiths do the same. By the same token I firmly believe that adapting modern methods does not mean we should lower our standards of appearence or workmanship. There are times when only a so called traditional technique is appropriate and we need to learn and appreciate those techniques. I'm a fairly decent mig tig and stick welder and I've built and programmed my own semi automatic welding equipment when the need arose but there are lots of reasons why a forge weld is the only appropriate way to join some elements. That's one reason why I think blacksmithing does have a future if we continously add to our abilities but don't forget and abandon the past. Steve G
5:07 am
November 8, 2010
So let me see if I got this right... I mean you know how us glorified welders have trouble with anything other than welding. :mstickle:
The 'masters' are worried that we're going to diminish their work and craft? I'd think that a true master's work would stand up on it's own... If they want to use traditional techniques then that's their deal and their responsibility to exemplify.
█▐▐█▐▐ ▌█▐ ▌▐
6:08 am
September 26, 2010
If we look at the word blacksmith, when broken down means a person that works with black metal and smith- a person who smites black metal. What is his definition? Does he make a living at it? If you can only do what he does and only with papers then we should all put down our hammers and let it die for sure. Then he will be right.
6:10 am
Larry L;5257 wrote: I was reading some online rants (posted elsewhere on the web) about views regarding blacksmithing.. It was pretty clear to me the fellow thought the rank and file of blacksmith organizations are wanna-bees and glorified welders... He himself was one of the very few... (less than a handful), of "real" blacksmiths in the organization.... And further more it seemed that rather than help the cause most of us glorified welders and wanna-bees where damaging to the preservation.. That with our machines and our lack of skill we perverted the craft.. It also seemed from the posts that his feeling was we should all just go away and leave the blacksmithing to the blacksmiths...
I will be the first to admit I do not have the skill of a master smith... I was not lucky enough to apprentice with one, or even with a lousy wanna be smith... I dont not hold a Certificate of Merit in the Worshipful company of Blacksmiths, let alone a Gold Metal Journeyman.
I dont claim to be a master of any craft, but rather a disciple. I am a member of the Metal Church.... I attend, glorify and rejoice.... I seek truth and knowledge from those in the congregation who wish to share the good news... I strive to understand and live a life in tune with the ways of the church... Support my fellow church members and carry the message...
I dont understand the exclusionary ideals... that unless you fit narrow criteria your not worthy... My church extends welcoming hands to everyone.... If your just curious or a master... I want to encourage and support any blacksmith, glorified welder or wanna-bee.. If they are making there first forged knife out of a file in a coffee can forge or if they are a 10th generation smith in a third world country that has never seen a powerhammer or a gas fire.. Or even if they have never struck a hot chunk of steel but are fascinated by those of us who do... They are all brothers (and welcome) in the Metal Church....
So..... tell me frankly what you think..... Tell me where you fit in... Tell me why your view is valid and mine is flawed (or that you agree, or that yellow makes you sad, or what ever you think is worth the time to spew on to the page)
Couldn't sleep last night? This is way heavy. Try some hot chocolate tonight... 🙂
JE
6:51 am
NWBA Member
April 19, 2010
10:08 am
March 22, 2010
4:39 pm
LOL No one says you can't join if you want to learn. The guy is saying if you want to ignore Blacksmithing tradition and fake it all don't call yourself a smith.
Now would any Knife s care to explain why the Knife s guild exists but no guild for blacksmiths?
Is there is a reason for it. Is it exclusionary?
it is to ensure that when someone goes to a "smith" and says I want this . they get "that", done to the best standards and ability..
I am going to call my self a master Knife maker and sell knives that break. Would you be happy?
4:50 pm
1:Gone to Hereford
2:Gone to Carbondale
Sorry we had a couple of carbondale and a few from "metal smithing" courses at universities in the UK come to Hereford. Because they didn't learn enough technique.
Other have pointed out that there are times and techniques that are considered the basics. that doesn't stop you going further, but they still remain the basics.
and when the power goes out.... better know the basics.
I had no power for four years. it was fun but not profitable.
PS At Hereford we were normally told several possibilities. there are many ways to make a square corner. upset, cut and fill lap weld or electric. the point was to pick the most appropriate method for the job and scale of the work.
And there is no one saying "hey don't look. don't learn. they all say Watch and learn. that is not exclusionary unless you choose to make it so.
I'm a Master Knife Smith.
11:12 pm
April 21, 2010
1:07 am
June 24, 2010
Eric,
I'm not sure if that was a tongue-in-cheek question about a buffalo blower with a propane forge. But it might work if you installed something along the lines of the "demand regulator" used on a natural gas or propane vapor engine. You might need some type of venturi so the pressure would drop with greater flow rates, just like it does in an intake manifold. Or just build an atmospheric forge. Or go further over the top with your humor :giggle:
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