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4:30 am
December 19, 2010
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I bought some 1/2" plate from my local metal supplier. My target was to get a piece of 3/4 or 1 inch plate 20" by 20". The supplier didn't have capability to shear the thicker stuff, and wouldn't cut what i needed from 1/2". So my choices were to either buy a 4 by 8 foot sheet of what i needed, or buy some pre cut plates. The sheet was going to be hella expensive, so i bought four 10 by 10 inch plates that i will weld together.
I have mig, tig, and stick capability, but my mig is just a millermatic 180, good for 5/16 in a single pass. My tig and stick machine is a synchrowave 200. What would the best process be? I know stick is preferred for this, but would multiple passes with the mig do the job? Or should i use multiple passes and some preheat with stick? The plate is going to be an anvil base for a stand i am making for a new fontanini 460 pound anvil i am buying. Larry, i know you are the welding guru, i would appreciate the advice. My next big purchase within the next few years will be a good industrial mig machine. Thanks for the help.
Brian
7:00 am
March 22, 2010
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First off, what is it? does it have to stay flat? how strong does it need to be? do you need these to be structural full penetration welds? The strongest is going to be many tig passes but it would take a really long time, your Miller 180 will do the job, and do it much better if you heat the plates up to about 500 deg prior to welding... If you need it to be as strong as you can get it Id bevel both edges and weld a good heavy pass from each side, it will minimize warpage and give you a pretty strong joint... and easier to do than a true full pen weld... Another thing to keep in mind is Im pretty sure a 180 has a 30 % duty cycle... So that's three out of every ten minutes... Plan your welds so you can preheat, weld a side, let the welder sit, preheat and weld again..
And I am no weld guru, Ive run miles of wire, but I am pretty much self taught and far from know it all.... Dont take my word as gospel
Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln
7:10 am
December 19, 2010
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Thanks Larry. This plate is for an anvil stand. I am buying a new fontanini 460 pounder. I have a synchrowave 200, so i was also thinking of stick welding it, but mig would be much easier. I am making a tripod stand similar to the hofi style. I may just stick weld it so i don't have to spend so much time waiting for the duty cycle. I may weld some bracing gussets to the bottom of the plate as well since its a heavy anvil.
3:40 pm
March 1, 2011
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I'd stick weld it with 7018, bevel the edges, do several passes. It's a good idea to assemble the prepped pieces and tack them together, make sure it's how you want it before you weld it up. Then do short welds, move from one seam to another around the stand, doing all the welding on one seam at once is likely to pull the pieces out of alignment. Moving around while you work this way gives the welds time to cool a bit before you chip the slag off for the next pass.
Preheating helps a lot, and moving around, one side to the other helps keep it from distorting, as it keeps the heat more evenly distributed.
3:43 pm
December 19, 2010
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Thanks Poleframer.
3:57 pm
March 22, 2010
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Yep the sycrowave and some rod is going to give you the most penetration and probably the least amount of work overall... Good plan, sounds like a winner
Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln
4:41 pm
December 19, 2010
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Thanks Larry. I will probably be buying some one inch plate if this doesn't work, but i like a challenge, and from all the advice i have received from other forums, it has spurred me on to try and make this work. The negativity i have gotten on a miller welding site has been amazing to me. Some of those guys were downright assholes! It always amazes me to see how some people jump in and ridicule someone for attempting something that may be a bit over their capability. The guys on that welding forum were less than helpful. I just makes me appreciate all the first class help i receive on blacksmithing forums.
6:20 pm
July 9, 2010
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ironstein;8341 wrote: Thanks Larry. I will probably be buying some one inch plate if this doesn't work, but i like a challenge, and from all the advice i have received from other forums, it has spurred me on to try and make this work. The negativity i have gotten on a miller welding site has been amazing to me. Some of those guys were downright assholes! It always amazes me to see how some people jump in and ridicule someone for attempting something that may be a bit over their capability. The guys on that welding forum were less than helpful. I just makes me appreciate all the first class help i receive on blacksmithing forums.
I vote for the E7018-stick welding also... I agree there are a lot of "asshats" in forums that don't want to help, but hinder. That's the way it goes I guess.
7:07 pm
April 12, 2010
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make sure you clamp it down good too. all those welds and 4 different plates are going to be fighting against eachother trying to turn it into a pretzle!
are you going to weld from both sides?
I would weld out one side keep it clamped down, let it cool, grind your weld flush, then flip it clamp it down again and do as you did on the first side.
also before you place your anvil on its stand lay a bed of sillicone sealent down, it will quiet the anvil quite a bit.
7:34 pm
NWBA Member
April 19, 2010
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If you are in or near Seattle, and the weldment approach does not work, may I suggest you contact Burning Specialties Inc., 6553 5th Ave S, Seattle - (206) 763-3023. Steve has a good collection of plate stock and can cut it to size with his optical burner. If you want it contoured (I had him cut 1.0 plate for my Hofi / Tom Clark style anvil base), bring along a paper pattern with the profile outlined with a Sharpie pen so the optical eye can see it and follow the line. You will likely have to come back to pick it up, and it won't be cheap, but the price will be fair to both parties. Bottom of stand shown here after welding on legs.
7:42 pm
I feel like i'm missing something here, it's going to be a box stand for a 450 pound anvil, does it really need to be uber welded? It's not really going to be experiencing much direct shock. V out the joints then I'd really only see it needing a good solid weld 1" in every direction from each corner with 1" in the middle of each seam.
8:11 pm
March 1, 2011
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gee sam, you're no fun. if ya dont spend at least 3 days discussing every aspect of an idea, how do you expect to get anything done?:mstickle:
8:19 pm
May 26, 2010
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i'd probly try to clamp, then trigger or tig, lots of clamped spots all the way round first, then keeping the soaked pre heat up, stagger the short runs, might help it to rest to a flat....and/or throw some big rivets in to help keep the laminations together while you weld, then hammer the rivets into obscurity.
Blacksmith?.....snap out of it!
9:17 pm
December 19, 2010
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Sam, thank you! I was thinking the same thing. I went on the miller welding forum expecting to get a simple answer, but no, those guys acted like total assholes. Responses ranged from: no way will that plate hold 460 pounds, to i can't believe this guys stupid enough to try to stitch four plates together! Its just an anvil stand. Either way, i am gonna talk to a friend of mine who works for a big structural steel company to see if he can grab me a piece of 1 inch plate. I have a plasma cutter and i wanna cut it to fit the anvil, and weld some rails on the side to keep the anvil from moving.
If i cant find a suitable piece of plate, i will weld like everyone suggests. In the meantime, i made my first 1 1/4 hardy tool for the new anvil, a hot cut.
9:36 pm
January 15, 2011
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I would do what Larry is saying for sure. I too have the syncrowave 200.
Preheat and 7018..giddy up
If you were really concerned with the welds do a root pass with something like 6011.
You'll be fine, tack first all corners and slowly fill in to avoid the warp from hell.
9:58 pm
December 19, 2010
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I am amazed how positive and helpful blacksmiths are! As i stated before i started a thread on the millerwelds forum, and those guys really had a ton of negativity, some of it personally insulting. Some of them even started telling me that the anvil stand design i was thinking wouldn't work!
Either way, i appreciate the positivity and great suggestions i this thread has offered me. I think blacksmiths in general are used to making things happen with what they have to work with, and i admire that. It just bugs the shit out of me to have guys insulting me because i am doing something they haven't attempted.
10:19 pm
January 15, 2011
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ironstein;8354 wrote: I am amazed how positive and helpful blacksmiths are! As i stated before i started a thread on the millerwelds forum, and those guys really had a ton of negativity, some of it personally insulting. Some of them even started telling me that the anvil stand design i was thinking wouldn't work!
Either way, i appreciate the positivity and great suggestions i this thread has offered me. I think blacksmiths in general are used to making things happen with what they have to work with, and i admire that. It just bugs the shit out of me to have guys insulting me because i am doing something they haven't attempted.
Hey ironstein...Let's see the guys on the Miller forum weld when the power goes out....
Oh yes...the Blacksmith will rule !!!!
10:26 pm
December 19, 2010
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Touche ArtWerkz, Touche! I try not to get into semantic arguments with clowns like that but on this one i had a lapse i had to talk some crap to them!
2:27 am
November 8, 2010
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poleframer;8350 wrote: gee sam, you're no fun. if ya dont spend at least 3 days discussing every aspect of an idea, how do you expect to get anything done?:mstickle:
You definitely got my number 😉
Duty cycle and current are proportional. A new Millermatic 180 has a 30% duty cycle @ 135A. If you weld at 180A then the duty cycle will drop to 17% and at 70A you'll have 100%+ (eh?).
Adjusted Duty Cycle = (Rated Current/Welding Current)^2 * Duty Cycle
Distortion is a fact of life when welding. Whether it's heat related or due to the shrinkage of the filler alloy you're always going to have distortion even if you don't see it.
Don't over-weld the metal!
An E7018 is rated at 70,000 PSI minimum tensile strength so you don't need 3" wide fillet welds for 1/2" plate ;). The less welding you do the less distortion you will have. If possible go with a larger electrode with higher deposit rates as opposed to multipass. The shrinkage of the multiple beads is cumulative :p
Backstepping is also useful as well as staggaring your welds.
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6:26 pm
NWBA Member
November 8, 2010
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I've got the same 185 millermatic or 210 as it's now called. I regularly use it on material that is too heavy for it by turning the wire down and, with max heat, really letting it 'spit' into the puddle. It does generate more spatter and undercut if you're not careful but it does penetrate better than if you just crank up the wire and get a big fat bead that doesn't even burn through scale. (seen it)
I'm a big fan of stick welding- picked up an unused 285A miller inverter for 900$ off C/L to compliment the 200A dynasty
They only remember you when you SCREW UP~!!!
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