Log In
Register
Home
Topic RSS
6:35 am
March 22, 2010
Offline
I am pretty excited about this.. Bought this little heat treat oven from the GSA... Big for a little unit... has about a 14" X 10" X 8" working area.... And the dial goes to 2200 deg...
I wired it up and ran it for a bit today.... in about an hour it got up to 1200 deg (what I had it set at and verified with my optical pyrometer)
I got a cheap digital pyrometer/controller off ebay and I think I can at least set up a dedicated temp readout....
I am hoping this will get me more into actual heat treatment of some of my tooling rather than the "get it hot and dunk it" method that has been my norm until now....
[Image Can Not Be Found]
[Image Can Not Be Found]
[Image Can Not Be Found] [Image Can Not Be Found]
Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln
3:44 pm
August 29, 2010
Offline
Wow Larry that’s great, it looks like it has lots of temperature control. Are you intending to use it for annealing and edit* naturalizing processes? I know little about the processes, but I understand done right it needs to be very well controlled. Did you normally do much heat treating in your work? Have you thought about a digital controller? I know if I was using it I would screw up the timing constantly. I don’t know what it would cost but just the ramping control seems like it would be worth a great deal, if you use it regularly. And coming in the next day knowing it was done right would be nice too. The “get it hot and dunk it” method is the most fun or at least the most exciting:banghead:, and you can get a little surprise:poop:, keeps it all kinda interesting don’t you think?
Edit* duh, thanks Grant ‘normalizing’.
it's been fun, later!
4:49 pm
March 22, 2010
Offline
I dont know if "fun" is a normal part of what I want out of heat treat.... What I hope for is predictably.... it would be nice to know that its the tool that failed, not the heat treat.... so you can make adjustments to the tool based on known performance... and not have to speculate on if it was a heat treat issue...
I know there are no guarantees... But I figure its got to be a step in the right direction
Whatever you are, be a good one.
Abraham Lincoln
5:13 pm
August 29, 2010
Offline
Yes, predictability. Sort of like my posts, if it takes 5 words, I’ll have it down to 500, easy. The more I learn about heat treating the more I wonder how anybody gets it right without a lab. Close enough is fine, most of the time, for most ordinary things. But when you have a tool you’re depending on go ‘snap’ controlled heat treating seems like a great idea.
it's been fun, later!
5:58 pm
March 18, 2010
Offline
Annealing and nomalizing (naturalizing?) require a nice ramp down in the temperature. In a furnace like this with a good deal of insulation, I'd put as big a block of steel as I could fit in with the work. Just heat storage, take a while to get it all hot, but the cool down would be nice and slow.
I know. "Normalizing" is just heat it up and let it air cool. Well, with H-13 and other air-hardening steels that's called "quenching"!
“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~
6:06 pm
March 18, 2010
Offline
Larry L;2830 wrote: I dont know if "fun" is a normal part of what I want out of heat treat.... What I hope for is predictably.... it would be nice to know that its the tool that failed, not the heat teat.... so you can make adjustments to the tool based on known performance... and not have to speculate on if it was a heat treat issue...
I know there are no guarantees... But I figure its got to be a step in the right direction
Well, ya still get the "fun" of pulling it out and quenching it. Like when a friend of mine quenched a big coil spring in his five-gallon bucket of oil..........plastic bucket of oil! Ya know at a couple hundred degrees they turn to goo and just sorta slump to the floor. Now we're talking fun! Red-hot steel, flaming oil all over the floor, nearest fire extinguisher a hundred feet away under a pile of crap........that's what I'm talking about!
“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~
6:49 pm
March 26, 2010
Offline
Kinda curious how you get one with the cheap temperature controllers Larry. I recenmtly bought a small potters kiln for heat treating. I haven't had time to experiment other than to fire it up and check it gets upto temperature. It's sitting in my garage back home (on trailer in the picture) for now but I'm kinda quite excited about getting it running for similar reasons to you wanting to get to grips with heat treating.
Till now my heat treating has been heat to "a bit" past non magnetic, quench in oil, temper at purple. A lot of my tooling is 4340 and the more I find out, the more I realise I'm nowhere near "by the book". That said it seems pretty tough stuff and stands up to a lot of my home brewed, slaughter a chicken under a full moon and compare the colour to blood heat treating.
I'd like to know how you get on with the cheapo ebay temperature PID controllers (if you use one) they just seem a little too cheap
7:22 pm
March 18, 2010
Offline
Holy Crap! There's a trailer somewhere in that picture?
4340 and other similar nickle rich alloys (like EN-30-B) seem to be very forgiving. But I hate the heavy indestructable scale that forms on nickle alloys!
(center & large)
“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~
8:08 pm
April 21, 2010
Offline
Carbon steels in normalizing, I hate to be a putz for normalizing high carbon steels just to point out for ppl who dont know require getting it up to critical heat and making sure that the steel is non magnetic using ofc a magnet. then ofc letting it air cool. Or in the case of creating hamons by heat treating the quick dunk in water/oil. I am sure everyone knows this already but...just wanting to point it out.
8:22 pm
March 26, 2010
Offline
Grant;2837 wrote: Holy Crap! There's a trailer somewhere in that picture?
4340 and other similar nickle rich alloys (like EN-30-B) seem to be very forgiving. But I hate the heavy indestructable scale that forms on nickle alloys!
(center & large)
It's a trailer Grant but not as we know it.
Actually it's just a home brewed flat bed, only a single axle, 750kg capacity but being low and flat it's very useful for getting gates/railing on and off.
8:27 pm
March 18, 2010
Offline
With a good controller that should work a treat!
“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~
8:37 pm
March 26, 2010
Offline
Grant;2844 wrote: With a good controller that should work a treat!
which begs the question, whats a good controller?
11:30 pm
May 13, 2010
Offline
I too picked up a kiln cheap, for heat treating. I would be interested as well in hearing about your experience in installing a controller. I think the relays to run the kiln are going to be as expensive or even more expensive than the controller itself.
12:09 am
March 18, 2010
Offline
david hyde;2845 wrote: which begs the question, whats a good controller?
I love it when they beg! But actually I don't have a clue. Guess we'll have to wait for Larry to get his hooked up.
Here's my old heat treat furnace with an ancient bang-bang controller. Still works great though.
"Hevi-Duty" 2000F heat treat furnace
Honeywell controller
“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~
12:24 am
NWBA Member
July 9, 2010
Offline
Grant,
This technical terminology is too much for me. What, for anvil's sake, is a "bang-bang controller"? Is that bang on or bang off?
My son is the Blacksmith
12:36 am
March 26, 2010
Offline
jeez Grant, that stuff actually looks older than you. Hard to believe I know, but ...
12:43 am
March 18, 2010
Offline
J Wilson;2856 wrote: Grant,
This technical terminology is too much for me. What, for anvil's sake, is a "bang-bang controller"? Is that bang on or bang off?
Well, that the sound they make. Actually it's the whopping big contactor they control that makes the noise. Yes, on/off, bang-bang. All or nothing.
david hyde;2857 wrote: jeez Grant, that stuff actually looks older than you. Hard to believe I know, but ...
I don't have to take this abuse!:stomp::stomp::stomp::banghead::banghead::banghead:
“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~
1:11 am
March 22, 2010
Offline
Holy crap, Grant that is an antique.
Keyport had a heat treat facility, perhaps a dozen or so ovens, Barber Colman brand was the predominant controller brand but there were some Honeywells too. Most of the controllers were 1940's vintage, Bang Bang is right, on a large oven the relays make a lot of noise, the civil servants working there complained, kept them awake all the time :stomp::stomp::stomp:
The controllers were old but still worked. This was in the early 1970's They used one or two vacuum tubes. These were electrical/mehanical, eventually all those were replaced with solid state controllers.
That was a creepy dirty place, the plating plant was worse.
I'm glad I'm retired.
1:19 am
March 18, 2010
Offline
See! And you thought I was old! Gene was around when electricity was invented! He actually had to carry it from one place to another in a bucket because wire hadn't been invented yet!
Yeah, once in awhile I gotta bang on the Hornywell Controller with a hammer to get it to kick in, but I been doin' that for years. They don't build shit like that anymore.
S.T.O.C.K! *
*Stuff The Old Coots Know
“There are painters who transform the sun into a yellow spot,
but then there are others who, with the help of their art and their intelligence,
transform a yellow spot into the sun.” ~ Pablo Picasso ~
Most Users Ever Online: 668
Currently Online:
32 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Larry L: 1566
Grant: 1420
Bruce Macmillan: 625
Lee Cordochorea: 595
Lynn Gledhill: 572
JNewman: 520
Gene C: 504
J Wilson: 426
Eric Sprado: 383
Tom Allyn: 340
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 22
Members: 8729
Moderators: 4
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 23
Forums: 97
Topics: 3538
Posts: 20289
Newest Members:
TruSteele13, windhaen, Jeffrey Funk, Tom, churndashmaven, cameliacity, fred.f.chopin, RuoYi, rodeoneerer, NWBABjornModerators: Steve McGrew: 77, N.W.B.A.: 72, webmaster: 0, bluehost: 0
Administrators: admin: 540
Usage Policy